Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[Stoodoo]

Got this lovely e-mail today.
Could dismiss it, but it does make me nervous.

Cancer update -- Johns Hopkins -- Cancer News from Johns Hopkins
1. No plastic containers in micro.
2. No water bottles in freezer.
3. No plastic wrap in microwave........................................He said that the combination of fat, high heat, and plastics releases dioxin into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body.
Instead, he recommends using glass, such as Corning Ware, Pyrex or ceramic containers for heating food. You get the same results, only without the dioxin...............................................

With all of my no chill beers I have let them cool down overnight in the kettle before transfering the wort to my plastic fermentor, so no "known" problem with that. However, I have been thinking for some time about the use of my plastic "food grade" "KEEP COOL" mash tun. Yes it may be food grade, but it was designed to keep the liquid cold. It worries me that it may well be leaching some sort of toxins etc into the very hot mash.

Cheers

 

[Batz]

Got this lovely e-mail today.
Could dismiss it, but it does make me nervous.

Cancer update -- Johns Hopkins -- Cancer News from Johns Hopkins
1. No plastic containers in micro.
2. No water bottles in freezer.
3. No plastic wrap in microwave.

Johns Hopkins has recently sent this out in its newsletters. This information is being circulated at Walter Reed Army Medical Center as well.!
Dioxin chemicals causes cancer, especially breast cancer.
Dioxins are highly poisonous to the cells of our bodies. Don't freeze your plastic bottles with water in them as this releases dioxins from the plastic.

Recently, Dr. Edward Fujimoto, Wellness Program Manager at Castle Hospital , was on a TV program to explain this health hazard. He talked about dioxins and how bad they are for us.

He said that we should not be heating our food in the microwave using plastic containers. This especially applies to foods that contain fat. He said that the combination of fat, high heat, and plastics releases dioxin into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body.
Instead, he recommends using glass, such as Corning Ware, Pyrex or ceramic containers for heating food. You get the same results, only without the dioxin. So such things as TV dinners, instant ramen and soups, etc., should be removed from the container and heated in something else. Paper isn't bad but you don't know what is in the paper. It's just safer to use tempered glass, Corning Ware, etc.

He reminded us that a while ago some of the fast food restaurants moved away from the foam containers to paper. The dioxin problem is one of the reasons.

Also, he pointed out that plastic wrap, such as Saran, is just as dangerous when placed over foods to be cooked in the microwave. As the food is nuked, the high heat causes poisonous toxins to actually melt out of the plastic wrap and drip into the food.

Cover food with a paper towel instead.

Your welcome in Kin Kin or the Batcave anytime tangent

Batz

 

[tangent]

Thanks Batz

I like the convenience of no chill and have done it once, and my jerry literally melted and didn't go back into shape.
Now i still use my immersion chiller down to ~40C with 50L of tap water (which gets collected and used for wash down and the pot plants) and rack with hose into a sanitised fermenter.
I wait overnight after it's been sitting on a concrete floor,
aerate/pour into another fermenter and pitch at 18-20C.

 

[Guest Lurker]

What improvements do you suggest? I've tried protien rests & always do a hard rolling boil for 90 mins, with Koppafloc added at 5 mins - Maybe you could enlighten

cheers Ross

Sorry Ross, missed this. Mind you I have posted this plenty of times before in more on topic threads.

I also had a chill haze problem when the MO supply changed in Australia and it certainly is prone to it. I did a bunch of things all at once.
1) I chase every slight doughball and make sure the mash is completely wet at dough in
2) I boil so hard that putting your head over the kettle to peep in is dangerous because I get molten geysers on the top and boil for 80 mins
3) I doubled my kettle fining addition

I cant tell you which one fixed it, but I can brew with MO, no filtering, no polyclar, and no chill haze. If those hadnt fixed it I would have kept trying other things like protein rests, until I found a way that I could brew with my particular system, and remove that problem, just cos I'd rather improve the brewing than attack the symptom.

If you already do those things, I wonder if kettle geometry and boil circulation might make a difference? My feeling is that increasing the vigour of boil was probably the biggest impact.

 

[Doc]

Apologies if this seems like a silly question.

I'm no-chilling into 20litre Willow jerries which seem to hold closer to 24litres. I'm aiming for 23litre batches, which gives me either one litre of air I get to squeeeeeze out or an extra litre of wort which may get discarded with the break material and hops I failed to keep out.

Or... I could use that extra bit for a starter. In this way, the medium for the starter is well-matched to the wort the starter is introduced to, so there is one less vector for Yeast Shock. If I am sanitary enough, I can heave the wort into the fermenter and seal for the time it takes the starter to... well... start.

Does this seem sensible? Or is it common practice?

Cheers.

I do just that. Put 600ml of wort in a sterlised coke bottle, keep in the fridge for a day to drop the break material out (as it is the last bit of wort from the kettle; get it out of the frigde to bring up to room temp to make a starter for the No Chill brew. Saves buying DME for starters too.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Got this lovely e-mail today.
Could dismiss it, but it does make me nervous.

Cancer update -- Johns Hopkins -- Cancer News from Johns Hopkins
1. No plastic containers in micro.
2. No water bottles in freezer.
3. No plastic wrap in microwave.

This has been around for a while and appears to be badly misquoted / semi myth. A google turns up lots of links including this one.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[tangent]

this MO haze discussion is too good to ignore/miss for the no-chillers.
Can we split this into another thread.
GL raises some great points.
I have some corresponding stuff to add.

Delete this after eh?

 

[Uncle Fester]

Dioxin chemicals causes cancer, especially breast cancer.

May be a way to get rid of my man-****ies? <_<


Festa

 

[Ross]

Sorry Ross, missed this. Mind you I have posted this plenty of times before in more on topic threads.

I also had a chill haze problem when the MO supply changed in Australia and it certainly is prone to it. I did a bunch of things all at once.
1) I chase every slight doughball and make sure the mash is completely wet at dough in
2) I boil so hard that putting your head over the kettle to peep in is dangerous because I get molten geysers on the top and boil for 80 mins
3) I doubled my kettle fining addition

I cant tell you which one fixed it, but I can brew with MO, no filtering, no polyclar, and no chill haze. If those hadnt fixed it I would have kept trying other things like protein rests, until I found a way that I could brew with my particular system, and remove that problem, just cos I'd rather improve the brewing than attack the symptom.

If you already do those things, I wonder if kettle geometry and boil circulation might make a difference? My feeling is that increasing the vigour of boil was probably the biggest impact.

Thanks for the reply - But honestly other than doubling the kettle fining which I may or may not have done at the time, the others are definately covered. With regards to good brewing practices I personally don't see much difference to adding a post boil fining agent like Polyclar to using one in the boil like whirfloc or whatever.
MO certainly varies dramatically from sack to sack - Fortunately never had a terrible one again like the 1st Bairds sack we got from the local HBS. There were at least 3 different brewers I know who all ended up with beers as murky as river water - possibly a fault with that sack, who knows...


Cheers Ross

 

[Kai]

Sorry Ross, missed this. Mind you I have posted this plenty of times before in more on topic threads.

I also had a chill haze problem when the MO supply changed in Australia and it certainly is prone to it. I did a bunch of things all at once.
1) I chase every slight doughball and make sure the mash is completely wet at dough in
2) I boil so hard that putting your head over the kettle to peep in is dangerous because I get molten geysers on the top and boil for 80 mins
3) I doubled my kettle fining addition

Just out of curiosity, do you hydrate your kettle finings before adding to the kettle?

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Just out of curiosity, do you hydrate your kettle finings before adding to the kettle?

When I used the Brewcraft Irish Moss, which is actual moss, I would just throw them into the kettle and it seemed to work fine. I now use a tablet-form preparation (from G&G). It needs to be broken up and watered before adding, else you get little chunks of tablet. I haven't tried adding it earlier to see if that does it. I don't know what, but I figure there is a reason to not add it earlier.

 

[devo]

Well this thread has departed somewhat from it's original subject heading? :huh:


btw i've always used Irish moss in the boil and never had any issues with chill haze. B)

 

[Fents]

Im with Spills on this one. I almost always get chill haze. I use whirfloc tab at 10mins.

Also when i brew with JW Pils its always cloudy Dont know what im doing wrong.

 

[tangent]

Well this thread has departed somewhat from it's original subject heading?

that's what i said.

I've found recirculating the wort more before letting any into the kettle along with a really strong 90min boil has really made a lot of difference. I haven't had a bag of MO in ages though to see if it'll make any difference with that.

 

[Hashie]

Is it ok to no-chill in the kettle and then transfer to the fermenter in the morning?

Sorry if it's been asked already, but 50 pages is a bit of reading to wade through to find an answer.

What I was thinking, was just leaving the hot wort in the kettle, covered and with the hop sock taken out after the boil.

 

[3GumsBrewing]

Got this lovely e-mail today.
Could dismiss it, but it does make me nervous.

Cancer update -- Johns Hopkins -- Cancer News from Johns Hopkins
1. No plastic containers in micro.
2. No water bottles in freezer.
3. No plastic wrap in microwave.

This is an urban legend (been doing the rounds for a while) - Snopes - Plastic

Freeze away!!

DK

 

[Hogan]

Is it ok to no-chill in the kettle and then transfer to the fermenter in the morning?

Yes Hashie it's OK. You will also find that unless it is really cold - the wort temp will be just right for rehyrdating dry yeast and then pitching.


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[therook]

I have just done my 2nd AG and both times used the NoChill method....I have noticed after drinking the hydro sample that the Hop bitterness is there but taste and aroma isn't.....is this due to the hops being in the Hot wort for a prolong period?

if so how can this be overcome without the use of a chiller or am i doing something wrong

Rook

P.S I hope this hasn't been answered earlier, but 50 odd pages is to much to read. :lol:

 

[warrenlw63]

Nudge-Nudge, Wink-Wink

Warren -

 

[crozdog]

This is an urban legend (been doing the rounds for a while) - Snopes - Plastic

Freeze away!!

DK

DK,
that "article" may be false, but have a read of a book called The Feminization of Nature by Deborah Cadbury. It is a thought provoking read about the impact of "safe" chemicles on our environment.

The following is a review from Amazon UK
It is based on an 'Emmy' award winning BBC TV programme. It is very readable and clearly written. Scientists around the world are finding alarming changes in human reproduction and health. There is strong evidence that sperm counts have fallen dramatically. Testicular, prostate, and breast cancer are on the rise. Different animal species are even showing signs of 'feminisation' or 'changing sex,' the males actually producing eggs like females. According to scientific evidence compiled worldwide, the prime suspect in these worrying findings is the increased exposure to chemicals that can mimic the female hormone estrogen and other hormones. Indeed, man-made chemicals like DDT, PCB and other hormone disrupters have become soaked into our environment from their use in countless modern products, from plastics to pesticides. Only now is the full impact of their extensive use coming to light. Believed responsible for genital abnormalities and cancers across a wide range of species, these hormone disrupting chemicals may pose a threat not only to our human potential, but to our very survival. Through extensive interviews with fertility experts and scientists world wide as well as members of the chemical industry, Deborah Cadbury provides a balanced, cogent, compelling argument that propels us toward a disturbing conclusion. ...Cadbury's well researched, even handed analysis of these findings is a startling wake-up call to the far reaching consequences of widespread environmental pollution.

Despite that I happily no chill & use glad wrap in the microwave.