Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[Batz]

Could you not get this by just sitting around eating a few nibbles at a brewers meet?A dip sounds interesting

Batz

 

[Darren]

Batz,

Plenty of oxygen at most brewers meeting (as well as numerous other gasses from my experiences).

The environment needs to be oxygen free, just like boiled, cubed wort.

cheers

Darren

 

[Bobby]

I may have missed something here but this is confusing me, if the botulism spores are present in a given wort. What difference does it make if it is chilled or not chilled? Wont they still be present in the resultant beer?

 

[Aussie Claret]

Surely if there were any infection of any sort then it would become quite obvious as the jerry can or other storage vessel in time would expand, would it not?

I'm a no chiller and it has worked for me, I keep every thing covered when tranferring wort into my jerry can limiting the exposure to any infection (but not I suppose eliminating entirely); however I transfer when very hot which pasturises the contents of the jerry. Yes yes yes perhaps botulism may live in 100c wort thats been boiled for 60-90 minutes but if this is the case how come it hasn't been a problem for the hot wort manufacturers?

Like I said never had a problem and will continue with this method in the foreseeable future.

AC

 

[Darren]

Bobby, that is right. But chilled wort that is oxygenated and fermented will not support the growth of the bacteria (anaerobic). Alcohol further inhibits the growth. So if you chill, airate and pitch there are no worries. No chill, no, oxygen and store you COULD have a problem.

cheers

Darren

 

[KillerRx4]

Is wort after the boil 100% oxygen free?
Do you get 0% airation when transferring to the cube?
Do you remove 100% headspace when capping it off?

Would any of these inhibit the growth of these botulism nasties?

 

[Darren]

Surely if there were any infection of any sort then it would become quite obvious as the jerry can or other storage vessel in time would expand, would it not?

Yes yes yes perhaps botulism may live in 100c wort thats been boiled for 60-90 minutes but if this is the case how come it hasn't been a problem for the hot wort manufacturers?


AC

Claret,

Thats not maybe. Its fact. Why it hasn't been a problem yet doesn't mean that it isn't going to be a problem sometime down the track.

I suspect hot wort manufacturers have a much better process than most homebrewers I know. Plus, they nearly always use NEW jerrys.

cheers

Darren

(I will shut up now)

 

[warrenlw63]

(I will shut up now)

Can we get that in writing?

Warren -

 

[KoNG]

it is...!
but i'm sure its not legally binding...

 

[Adamt]

(I will shut up now)

Stop lying!


Just read about how the pH affects growth/kills botulin. I know wort can be quite acidic, would this, in combination with temperature be enough to eliminate it?

 

[Ross]

Plus, they nearly always use NEW jerrys.

cheers

Darren

(I will shut up now)

No they don't - They reuse the old ones.

cheers..

 

[DJR]

Hmm, nutrient rich solution with very low oxygen... sounds like fermented, carbonated and packaged beer!

Run for the hills!

ESB do re-use old ones, although they are getting big on using campden tablets now.

Could the whole wort pH/hot temperature/antimicrobial properties of hops be a protector for our no-chilled wort and packaged beer?

Anyway, chill out, if c. botulinum affects your cube it will swell up.

Edit: Found this: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6251461.html

The present invention relates to the discovery that hop extract is useful as an antibacterial agent against the dangerous pathogens Clostridium botulinum, Clostridium difficile, and Helicobacter pylori at levels below that at which a flavor from the acids contained therein is objectionable. More specifically, a process and associated product is described herein, comprising applying a solution of hop extract to a food, beverage or other medium so that the final concentration of hop ingredients is about 1 ppm or higher in order to inhibit the growth of Clostridium botulinum, Clostridium difficile, and/or Helicobacter pylori.

1ppm of hop compound = 1 IBU. So watch out you people making Bud Light clones

 

[browndog]

It would be great (and maybe end the debate once and for all) if we could get someone from ESB to comment on their process and why it works.

cheers

Browndog

 

[Jase]

It would be great (and maybe end the debate once and for all) if we could get someone from ESB to comment on their process and why it works.

cheers

Browndog

Was thinking exactly the same thing. Maybe someone in the industry who regularly post here can contact Matt Donelan (sp?) from St Peters Brewery to see how the process works.

Cheers,
Jase

 

[Adamt]

I would also like to know their inflation rate; that is, inflated cubes of course

 

[craig maher]

Was thinking exactly the same thing. Maybe someone in the industry who regularly post here can contact Matt Donelan (sp?) from St Peters Brewery to see how the process works.

Cheers,
Jase

or Scotty or Dave from NNL?

 

[johnno]

I have used this method all year, made about 8 brews with it so far. Beer tastes great.

Having said that I am in the process of installing a water tank. Once that tank is in and I have water in it I am going back to using a counterflow chiller. (and hosing the driveway down).

No Chill may work fine but there is always a nagging thought at the back of my mind.

Oh and I want to start using the pump again, so I can be a real brewer

cheers
johnno

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It would be great (and maybe end the debate once and for all) if we could get someone from ESB to comment on their process and why it works.

cheers

Browndog

I guess another debate closer would be for someone to die from their beer... Hmmm - may not work. :blink:

 

[Adamt]

I'm sure we can find someone willing to make and drink enough beer to find botulism, or at least die trying

 

[PostModern]

Found this: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6251461.html
1ppm of hop compound = 1 IBU. So watch out you people making Bud Light clones

I'd like to see something back that up. If so, debate over. Then begins the no-chill gruit debate.