Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[Darren]

Darren had some real controlled science to do 8).

Hot wort will not absorb oxygen.Boiling wort will absorb none!! I see many of you are also squeezing your cubes to exclude ALL the head space to minimise the chance of oxidation.

Obviously there is no absolute that you will culture up CB in a stored wort. To all your "nay-sayers", all I am saying is that you are on the path to optimising the growth conditions.

Strict anaerobes occupy a very small niece of microbiological space. They lay dormant almost indefinately until they encounter the correct conditions. Repeated storage in the same container (as tight arsed brewers do) only increases the likelihood of providing the right conditions.

If by some small chance you do succeed, it could be very problematic.

Sure you might be the lucky 10% who survive, your kids/friends might not be so lucky.

cheers

Darren

EDIT: I suspect spores are in all your worts waiting!!

 

[Pumpy]

Darren



Pumpy

 

[Darren]

Pumpy,

Nah, she'll be right mate. Never happened to me or anyone else I know.

cheers

Darren

 

[Adamt]

"She'll be right mate", but if anything happens, "I told you so!"

 

[Thirsty Boy]

oh dear,

Looks like i picked the scab off an ongoing debate here. All because a guy I talk to on the Brewing Network forums was looking for a way to chill his wort without using any water...

He had a few quetions, so I pointed him at this forum, summarised some of its arguments and (at his request) asked Colin Kaminski his opinion of no-chilling.

In either case, the whole Botulism argument, was the one thing that meant that I wasn't going to be trying No-Chill, But now... well, I think that the issue has been addressed to my satisfaction.

DJRs discovery pretty much pushes me over the benefit/risk tippping point, before I thought the chance of killing yourself with no-chilled wort was pretty damn small, now I think its basically negligable. Oh I understand that its probably still there, but worrying about risks that small is pretty silly.

I would however like to say a big thanks to Darren. He is the one who has poked, prodded and needled everyone here into actually going out and finding out the facts. Yeah, there were plenty of cavalier brewers with a major dose of the "she'll be rights" but I for one dont want to be responsible for killing my friends and family. Now I have enough information to be confident that thats not going to happen because of no-chill. But without Darren's persistant badgering, none of us would have gone to the trouble.... and what if there HAD been a real risk and we HAD just been lucky so far.

I now not only feel comfortable presenting the No-Chill method to my friend in the US a something that other peple are doing, but actually reccomending it as a potentially effetive and SAFE solution to his problem.

So, Darren. I know that you probably disagree with the conclusion I have come to, but I still appreciate the care you have shown in the face of some pretty strident hanging of **** on yur person. Thanks

Thirsty

 

[Pumpy]

Pumpy,

Nah, she'll be right mate. Never happened to me or anyone else I know.

cheers

Darren

I thought everthing was sweet with Darren

but now look what Thirsty boy has gone and done


pumpy

 

[jimmyjack]

I no chilled a Saaz Cap on Sunday and 4 days later pitched. I also used unfiltered rain water for brew water. I tasted the wort and it tastes great! Thankgod I just updated my will!


Cheers, JJ

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I no chilled a Saaz Cap on Sunday and 4 days later pitched. I also used unfiltered rain water for brew water. I tasted the wort and it tastes great! Thankgod I just updated my will!
Cheers, JJ

Who did you leave your beer to? :huh:

 

[Darren]

Pumpy, MAH, Thirsty,

I am still not convinced by any of the arguments that I have seen presented in this thread.

Hops do everything including kill/inhibit spore growth. Marvellous aint it? One thing they do for sure is bitter your beer. They will also kill your greyhound. :mellow:

Alcohol is probably the biggest inhibitor of CB as well as most other microbes (except good old yeast of course). I have seen a few reports of "bloated" cubes. I do wonder how many others have not actually been game enough to say "yeah, that happened to me too" for fear of being reprimanded by the keyboard savvy!!?

Now, as for water wastage (if that is the reason for no chill. Not that you have just started all-grain and have not yet bought/made a chiller). The mere practice of brewing is a water wasting process. There are bottles, fermenters, kettles, mash tuns, kegs, chillers storage/crush containers, racking hoses, etc, that all need cleaning, most on brew day.

So the question that I ask is: How are you guys cleaning all that equipment? Where is that water going? What sort of volumes of water are you using to do it in bits and pieces rather than all at once?

If you are using no chill to save water, then instead, chill, and use the chill "run-off" to clean everything at once. Doesn't take much planning as all this stuff tends to accumulate fairly quickly and does correlate well with the need to make more beer.

The facts remain that no-chill is novel (by todays standards). It goes against many, many years of good brewing practice. Basically, it is slack.

I am sure you guys are not the first to think; "Ah, what if I didn't cool the wort quickly?, it will cool by itself". "Now maybe if I didn't ferment it straight away I could store this sweet, sweet liquid". "Damn, it started fermenting, maybe if i added some, mmmmm, mmmmm, HOPS that would help".

Facts are, that it has been all done many, many times before you were even a glint in your Great, Great, Great grandfathers eyes. Its round, it rolls, its a wheel

Finally, whilst you no-chillers are still waiting for your wort to cool, mine is bubbling and the next time I look at it it is beer and almost fully protected against dumperbrau infection. Furthermore, all my equipment is clean. :super:

cheers

Darren

 

[Batz]

Pumpy, MAH, Thirsty,

I am still not convinced by any of the arguments that I have seen presented in this thread.

Hops do everything including kill/inhibit spore growth. Marvellous aint it? One thing they do for sure is bitter your beer. They will also kill your greyhound. :mellow:

Alcohol is probably the biggest inhibitor of CB as well as most other microbes (except good old yeast of course). I have seen a few reports of "bloated" cubes. I do wonder how many others have not actually been game enough to say "yeah, that happened to me too" for fear of being reprimanded by the keyboard savvy!!?

Now, as for water wastage (if that is the reason for no chill. Not that you have just started all-grain and have not yet bought/made a chiller). The mere practice of brewing is a water wasting process. There are bottles, fermenters, kettles, mash tuns, kegs, chillers storage/crush containers, racking hoses, etc, that all need cleaning, most on brew day.

So the question that I ask is: How are you guys cleaning all that equipment? Where is that water going? What sort of volumes of water are you using to do it in bits and pieces rather than all at once?

If you are using no chill to save water, then instead, chill, and use the chill "run-off" to clean everything at once. Doesn't take much planning as all this stuff tends to accumulate fairly quickly and does correlate well with the need to make more beer.

The facts remain that no-chill is novel (by todays standards). It goes against many, many years of good brewing practice. Basically, it is slack.

I am sure you guys are not the first to think; "Ah, what if I didn't cool the wort quickly?, it will cool by itself". "Now maybe if I didn't ferment it straight away I could store this sweet, sweet liquid". "Damn, it started fermenting, maybe if i added some, mmmmm, mmmmm, HOPS that would help".

Facts are, that it has been all done many, many times before you were even a glint in your Great, Great, Great grandfathers eyes. Its round, it rolls, its a wheel

Finally, whilst you no-chillers are still waiting for your wort to cool, mine is bubbling and the next time I look at it it is beer and almost fully protected against dumperbrau infection. Furthermore, all my equipment is clean. :super:

cheers

Darren

 

[Darren]

Batz,

Thats why you should never store homebrew in bottles on your path in the sun. Poor mailman

cheers

Darren

 

[Zizzle]

It is safe to assume you don't drive a car then Darren?

Like you say, no-chilling is slack, rapid chilling is the tried and tested way with many years of tradition.

Driving a car is slack, walking on foot is the tried and tested way with many years of tradition.

And we all know that hoping in a car is serveral orders of magnitude more risky than no-chilling beer.

 

[Gerard_M]

"i'm a fat f*^k"
And whats wrong with being one of the above??????

Well after 44 pages & 654 posts in this topic, the one thing we can say for certain is that Linz can no longer be described in the above terms. OK so he is not yet a skinny f*^k, but he is on his way :beerbang:
Cheers
Gerard

 

[Kai]

Hot wort will not absorb oxygen.Boiling wort will absorb none!! I see many of you are also squeezing your cubes to exclude ALL the head space to minimise the chance of oxidation.

Don't forget that HDPE is gas permeable.

 

[geoffi]

Pumpy, MAH, Thirsty,

I am still not convinced by any of the arguments that I have seen presented in this thread.

Darren

Well then...don't do it.

I do it. It saves me time. Saves me water. Allows me to brew double batches. It has not killed me or even made me feel slightly unwell, and I do not imagine it will do so any time soon. I am in vastly greater danger of being killed by (insert just about anything here) than by some wildly improbable infection taking hold in a cube.

I believe the chances of dying from liver failure or alcohol poisoning or an alcohol-related accident are hugely, vastly, stupendously greater than those of dying from an infected cube of slowly chilled wort.

I suggest you give up drinking alcohol immediately. It is clearly far too risky an activity for any rational person to engage in.

 

[user 384]

Sure you might be the lucky 10% who survive, your kids/friends might not be so lucky.

Geez Darren, you give me a hard time about not looking after my wort properly, and then you go and have a few bevies with your wee ones.

As far as friends dying from my beer, you haven't kicked the bucket yet .

Anyone not a Croweater, wouldn't realise that Darren is one of Adelaide's most respected HBers. We actually belong to the same informal brew group and on a number of occasions he has drunk my poisonous no-chill beer :lol: .

As Thirst Boy pointed out, Darren does make people critically look at their practices, even if most people consider his comments a little abbrasive. Having looked at my practices I'm happy with them, even if Darren thinks I'm slack. Point is, that is a value judgement. If you extend the argument to it's logical conclusion, we can all improve our sanitation practices, but who can afford to build a completely sterile room? I've chosen to set the bar at a particular level, Darren sets the bar at a different level. No need for anyone to get bent out of shape over those choices (unless they're paralysed due to botulism poisoning ).

Cheers
MAH

PS: Don't worry too much Darren, to counter my brewing slackness I have full medical cover, income protection insurance, work just across the road from Royal Adelaide Hospital, my sister-in-law is a nurse, plus I have an up to date will and a huge life insurance policy to make sure my wife is looked after.

 

[therook]

That would make Darren a hypocrite then wouldn't it???????



rook

 

[user 384]

That would make Darren a hypocrite then wouldn't it???????



rook

No. Ignorance is bliss. He doesn't ask, I don't tell.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Lukes]

Hand's up who eats a couple of day's old cold pizza (BBQ Chicken) with no chill beer to wash it down.

 

[Darren]

Hey guys,

My brew set-up is probably one of the least sanitary out there.

I havent sanitised a keg for years.

All I am saying is that unfermented wort (hopped or not) is the perfect growth medium for ALL sorts of bugs.

Nothing worse than a days work down the drain