ultratap or intertap? is there a difference?

[CaptainMachSnot]

Hadn't thought about our first point, but definitely valid. Couldn't agree more about paying more for quality gear. Will always be a market for cheap as possible, no matter the quality. I am in the camp of paying a bit more for quality, but not extra just for a brand name.

 

[CaptainMachSnot]

Please tell us your daughter isn't blonde

I could, but then I'd be lying. And the condition isn't even caused by the peroxide soaking in and pickling her brain. That's my conclusion as to why blonds aren't as smart as others, nothing to do with hair colour, everything to do with leaching chemicals. Wait a minute, same could be said for inferior taps.

 

[Meddo]

One would think that the best pour would "A" be the primary consideration, and "B" fairly easy to quantify.
But we see comments such as "it's ugly" wtf!, or "I love the look but it has sanitary issues" wtf!! or "does it come in colours?" wtf!!!
Sorry guys no offence intended here just pointing out that what on the face of it should be a simple enough decision becomes rather complicated once we introduce the "human condition"

Hey @Grmblz, I agree with a lot of what you say but a few of those WTFs seem to be aimed at a few of my comments here - not sure if that's ambiguity on my part, misinterpretation on yours, or just disagreement. But here goes.

If it was that easy to quantify which tap has the best pour why don't we have the answer yet? I suspect that the reason is that most of these modern taps are VERY good at pouring beers and differences in laminar flow or whatever will turn out to be fairly minimal. If I'm correct then appearances may be a differentiating factor - I don't have a horse in any race but if Intertap, nukatap and ultratap pour about the same for about the same price then looks may be a valid differentiator. Also I'm not personally going to buy any variation of a tap that isn't plain stainless steel, but I would and did suggest that if someone (KK) offer a coloured tap then it's probably worth making matching accessories.

Re the Euroball, I said that they have the best pour of any tap I've had, not just that they look good therefore top of my list regardless sanitary issues. I also believe I said (I could be wrong, haven't checked, but if I am wrong the following is my actual intention) that there MAY be issues regarding how sanitary they are, the problem is that nobody seems to know how to dismantle the bloody things to find out. Hopefully I'll have an answer to that one soon though. One of my concerns at the time I made that comment was about potential brass contact with beer but I have since ruled that out - it does appear that everything in contact with beer is stainless or Teflon so not a concern. I also got a glimpse of the internal mechanism and my concerns are far less than what they were a couple of days ago.

 

[CKK]

Was only going for a short term test and then replacing, cause i have read about it and also cannot handle the harsh chemicals used in brewing. On a side note had a little chuckle to myself - my son has a bird called Bismuth (i know it is also an element), so a little bit of bird in every pour.

Your son must be very nerdy to name a bird after an element. A little bit of bird in every pour sounds funny.

 

[CaptainMachSnot]

Science is his favourite subject in yr 8. He has almost memorised the entire periodic table, and always comes out with little fun facts for us. And he loves watching Steven Universe

 

[CKK]

The problem here is they are not exactly the same, sure the design is the same but the rasp/grit that you get from a ss is not the same as on a cp, and then we get onto what is brass? or rather what is in it? I believe lead has been added in some brass alloys to aid in the machining process, ss? jeez how many variations of ss are there? Manufacturer's will provide a product on price irrespective of quality and I have so called ss that is rusting, apparently stain LESS means it does rust just not as much as ordinary steel, where one draws the line is debatable, marine grade does not "stain" at least not the stuff on my boat, so what is the difference? and how does it perform in our particular usage with chemicals etc. End of day we need a trusted supplier that produces good quality gear, and if that means paying more for the same product but made with superior material then such is life.

There are definitely a lot of variations of SS. Couple of weeks ago we had to machine a part from our blow moulding plant and it was 316. Our lathe would barely touch it. Had to go to a top end machine shop who told us that not all 316 was the same and it can be further hardened. Looks like I am shopping for a new high end lathe next week. For our taps we use 304 and the supplier is required to give us the certificates for our engineer to check. More importantly though is that we have an extremely good relationship with the owners of the factory who would not want to mess with the idea of losing a lot of business in the future. In the past I have even had factories in China sending me plated stuff and insisting it was SS. Needless to say those suppliers never ever got the guernsey again.

Pretty hard though doing a quality product if people want cheap. Its why with the Ultra Tap our target was really the professional dispensing scene. That takes a while to convince but I think we are there now and its in demand mainly from overseas.

 

[CKK]

Science is his favourite subject in yr 8. He has almost memorised the entire periodic table, and always comes out with little fun facts for us. And he loves watching Steven Universe

A kid after my own heart. Keep encouraging that and it can take him far. We badly need more children to study science and maths. We get so many job applicants who not only have trouble with visualising numbers and quantities but have a really basic view of how things work. One thing I found about most home brewers is that they love to build stuff and make things work so I can enjoy that.

When it comes to the periodic table you know it was one man by the name of Glenn T Seaborg who discovered 10 of the transuranium elements. I was one lucky student at a Sydney University Summer Science School many years ago to go to his lectures on this subject when I was 15 years old. In those two weeks us youngsters attended lectures by top scientists such as the vice chairman of Nasa (Mueller), Herman Bondi (mathematician), Sumner Miller (Why is it so TV demonstrator) and quite a few more. Left us (then young people) with a desire to just find out more and follow in their steps. Hope that something like that is still available to people like your son. Changed my life and left me thirsty for knowledge all of my life. Making brewing and dispensing equipment continues to throw up so many challenges and I am grateful for the grounding in sciences that help us find answers. Well and it makes you thirsty for beer too …...

 

[CaptainMachSnot]

So is that how things are going, keep intertap as the budget item, and have the ultratap as the better one? I know that the ultra is also the next gen, and slightly improved model.

 

[CKK]

So is that how things are going, keep intertap as the budget item, and have the ultratap as the better one? I know that the ultra is also the next gen, and slightly improved model.

That is exactly right. Actually quite a number of improvements. One of the important things is to minimise the volume of beer retained in the tap as this is where the sudden reduction in pressure when its opened will allow the Co2 to come out of solution the quickest. So you will see the Ultra Tap has a very large shuttle to take up the available space.

Tell me about the bike in your pic?

 

[Grmblz]

Hey @Grmblz, I agree with a lot of what you say but a few of those WTFs seem to be aimed at a few of my comments here - not sure if that's ambiguity on my part, misinterpretation on yours, or just disagreement. But here goes.

Hi Meddo I did say "no offence intended" and I apologise if my comments caused any concern.

If it was that easy to quantify which tap has the best pour why don't we have the answer yet? I suspect that the reason is that most of these modern taps are VERY good at pouring beers and differences in laminar flow or whatever will turn out to be fairly minimal. If I'm correct then appearances may be a differentiating factor - I don't have a horse in any race but if Intertap, nukatap and ultratap pour about the same for about the same price then looks may be a valid differentiator.

Agreed, and that was the point I was trying to make. I referred to it as "the human condition" perhaps a poor choice of words.

Also I'm not personally going to buy any variation of a tap that isn't plain stainless steel, but I would and did suggest that if someone (KK) offer a coloured tap then it's probably worth making matching accessories.

Completely agree, a black/gold whatever tap on a ss shank is going to look weird imo. fwiw I'm also a polished ss fan but strokes for folks.

Re the Euroball, I said that they have the best pour of any tap I've had, not just that they look good therefore top of my list regardless sanitary issues. I also believe I said (I could be wrong, haven't checked, but if I am wrong the following is my actual intention) that there MAY be issues regarding how sanitary they are, the problem is that nobody seems to know how to dismantle the bloody things to find out. Hopefully I'll have an answer to that one soon though. One of my concerns at the time I made that comment was about potential brass contact with beer but I have since ruled that out - it does appear that everything in contact with beer is stainless or Teflon so not a concern. I also got a glimpse of the internal mechanism and my concerns are far less than what they were a couple of days ago.

I did check before commenting and found this which is the Roto @ over $150! and that is what I thought you were referring to, it appears to be a fair bit harder/more complicated to dismantle than the ultra/inter I can't comment on the Nuka as I've never used one, the Euro seems to be a copy/similar design to the Roto and @ $45 is a whole lot more palatable cost wise, the assumption would be it uses a similar plastic/teflon valve with o ring end seals, and my concern would be the longevity of the valve as compared to a ss item.
Aesthetics aside I'm looking forward to your conclusions at the end of your trials (I do hope you post them) and would ask you include ease of maintenance/cleaning, because as you have stated I suspect there wont be a lot of difference in the actual pours. @$150 or more the Roto can stay on the shelf, but @$45 the Euro becomes a much more interesting proposition.
Cheers G

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.

And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.

 

[CaptainMachSnot]

Must say, this thread has actually been usefull. I now have an actual understanding about the different taps.

Its a '17 bmw s1000r. Only had my bike license for about 6 years. It is so much fun to ride, but unfortunately could be a quick way to loose said license. Mrs Capt. has one as well, pink flames on a ninja 250.

 

[malt and barley blues]

Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.

And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.

 

[CaptainMachSnot]

I believe it is a less turbulent flow, resulting in more of the gas staying dissolved in the beer, and so you dont get massive unwanted heads and beer stays gassed in the glass

 

[Grmblz]

Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.

And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.

Actually it started in world war 2 with the wing design of the Mustang aircraft, just sayin.

 

[CKK]

Must say, this thread has actually been usefull. I now have an actual understanding about the different taps.

Its a '17 bmw s1000r. Only had my bike license for about 6 years. It is so much fun to ride, but unfortunately could be a quick way to loose said license. Mrs Capt. has one as well, pink flames on a ninja 250.
View attachment 118121

 

[CKK]

It is useful sometimes and its great to make contact with like minded people. I have an Aprilia Pegaso (650 single) with Akrapovich pipes on it that sound ever so sweet to me. However I have my eyes on the BMW RS1250 for some time now because that is one nice machine too.

 

[CKK]

Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.

And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.

On an aircraft wing you better have it because without it there will be no more lift and the machine will succumb to gravity. In a tap we want the beer to basically keep travelling forward and not deviating from its path which can cause tiny eddies where the pressure difference will help let the dissolved CO2 come out of solution and this results in foam. So places where the beer hits obstructions like the shuttle need to be the right shape to allow the flow to divide around it and keep moving forward rather than eddying. Also the contact surfaces for the liquid should not be completely smooth as this discourages the micro-eddies from forming where the liquid touches the surfaces. Same reason why you will never see an aircraft wing that is super smooth and shiny. Its all about stopping the fluid from curling back on itself when it moves.

 

[Grmblz]

Hope this makes it easier to understand, imagine the air flow is beer, and turbulence brings CO2 out of solution, the bottom wing will create a lot more foam in the pour.

It's used on all sorts of things such as formula one racing cars. It's also how air brakes work on jet wings by disrupting the flow and creating drag to slow them down, wheel brakes alone would lead to some interesting landings.

 

[Madscientist86]

I personally don't care if beer comes out straight or sideways, laminar flow or not. As long as my beer gets from my kegs to my glass with some head. Beer has been poured into vessels for a very long time without laminar flow and has worked to please the masses. Maybe I just need laminar flow taps to be sold with free steak knives or a stand to hold my cup of tea while on my ladder to be convinced.