Troubleshooting Home Brew Cock Ups

[AlgisKuliukas]

I'm a newby to home brewing. I bought a starter kit (20 L fermenter with a can of extract, yeats etc) about 6 months ago and i'm currently doing my tenth brew. I've had a few great ones. I've done a couple of "La Chouffe"s "ish" - very strong Belgian beer (o.g. 1100) Absolutely delightful rocket fuel - stronger than the real thing from the Westende Bar here in Perth and about one tenth the price. I also did a great "Amber Ale" clone - Cooper's sparkling with a wheat malt extract + lots of amarillo hops which was great too.

So, I'm hooked then! :beerbang:

However, I've also failed a couple of times and I really don't know why. I was hoping some of the more experienced home brewers here might be able to give me a few pointers.

The first failure was on my "La Chouffe" - second attempt. I don't know what went wrong. I did exactly the same thing as the first time (which was the best yet) and yet it was awful. Basically, the fermentation failed. I was left with a very sweet wort that I foolishly kegged anyway hoping that it might ferment in there over the next week or two. It didn't and i ended up pouring it down the loo - heartbreaking!. I guess my questions here are - would it have been ok to add some more yeast in at that stage? And why might the fermantation have failed?

The second one was also awful. I tried to do an English bitter and was given a nice sounding mixture of grain (that the guy at TWOC in Bibbra Lake sold me) to steep in the pot. It fermented ok but when it'd settled in the keg and I started drinking it had a very nasty bitter taste - like it was off, rather than over hopped. When I pour the wort into the fermenter I usually add some ice cubes in to cool it down quickly and give it a stir. Some of the wort came into contact with my hand so I was wondering if it might have got contaminated with some nasty bacteria or something. Another thing I was wondering is whether you're supposed to skim off the froth from the fermenter - isn't that supposed to be really bitter? I've never done that yet. Anyone got any thoughts?

I've got another on the go at the moment - Cooper's Bitter kit + Coopder's Dry Pale Malt + a tin of Pale Malt extract with extra Fuggles/East Kent Goldings. It had an o.g. of 1062 and tasted nice the other day as the og's gone down to about 1014. So I'm hoping I've done my first English bitter.

Thanks in advance for any help.

All the best

Algis

 

[zabond]

you dont remove the krausen[froth]what were your ferm temps/yeast?kit yeast can be a hit or miss keep your ferm temps around 18c for ales,you are asking a lot of open ended ?s more info as to what was in your failed brews may get a better answer, you could have contaminated your wort but a small splash at start of ferm should not cause a prob unless your hands were still dirty after tipping brew down dunny

 

[leiothrix]

given a nice sounding mixture of grain (that the guy at TWOC in Bibbra Lake sold me) to steep in the pot.

After steeping, did you remove the grain and boil it (err, the left over water that is)? If you didn't that's where your infection came from.

Rob.

 

[beerbrewer76543]

Or from non sanitary ice...

 

[peas_and_corn]

For the beer that ended too sweet, you just had an under attenuated beer. This is usually caused by either using a yeast that can't ferment to such a high percentage, doesn't have a high enough cell count in the fermenter, or a combination of both. These can be solved by choosing your yeast wisely and making a starter. Starters are mandatory if you have a wort with an OG of 1100.

I suggest you make some lower gravity beers in the meantime so you get the hang of fermentation control, yeast handling etc first, and then go to higher gravity beers. This knowledge would be inportant for you to be able to make consistently good high gravity beers.

Good luck!

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

you dont remove the krausen[froth]what were your ferm temps/yeast?kit yeast can be a hit or miss keep your ferm temps around 18c for ales,you are asking a lot of open ended ?s more info as to what was in your failed brews may get a better answer, you could have contaminated your wort but a small splash at start of ferm should not cause a prob unless your hands were still dirty after tipping brew down dunny

I've a fermenter fridge with a "fridge mate' thing - set at around 20C. Maybe I pitched in the yeast (one of those bags which you burst the inner sachet first and then leave it) too early or maybe it was still too hot. On the pack it said, either wait 3 hours or pitch it straight away. Confused, I thought damn it, it's been going 45 minutes so I pitched it in. As for the bitter, I don't think I got shit on my hands!! Thanks for your thoughts. Algis

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

After steeping, did you remove the grain and boil it (err, the left over water that is)? If you didn't that's where your infection came from.

Rob.

I did. I boiled it for a good hour, along with some malt extract and more hops. Could it be that I just left it in the fermenter too long? - about a week? Thanks for your thoughts. Algis

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

Or from non sanitary ice...

I've used the same ice every time and use it for drinks. But it's worth a thought. Thanks. Algis

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

For the beer that ended too sweet, you just had an under attenuated beer. This is usually caused by either using a yeast that can't ferment to such a high percentage, doesn't have a high enough cell count in the fermenter, or a combination of both. These can be solved by choosing your yeast wisely and making a starter. Starters are mandatory if you have a wort with an OG of 1100.

I suggest you make some lower gravity beers in the meantime so you get the hang of fermentation control, yeast handling etc first, and then go to higher gravity beers. This knowledge would be inportant for you to be able to make consistently good high gravity beers.

Good luck!

It was one of those yeast packs with a sachet of yeast inside that you burst first and then wait. I was confused by the instructions. It said either wait 3 hours or pitch it in straight away and, as the boil had almost finished I thought 45 mins would be ok. What's the deal there? Why do they give you a choice? It was the same yeast as worked the first time. Last time I used a standard pack of Cooper's dried yeast and it still worked fine. It was just the 2nd attempt that failed. Thanks for the advice. Algis

 

[peas_and_corn]

It was one of those yeast packs with a sachet of yeast inside that you burst first and then wait. I was confused by the instructions. It said either wait 3 hours or pitch it in straight away and, as the boil had almost finished I thought 45 mins would be ok. What's the deal there? Why do they give you a choice? It was the same yeast as worked the first time. Last time I used a standard pack of Cooper's dried yeast and it still worked fine. It was just the 2nd attempt that failed. Thanks for the advice. Algis

It's called a smack pack, smacking it ruptures a nutrient pack that helps the yeast cultivate. It's best to do so. That said, the yeast count in a smack pack is usually not enough to really ferment out a high gravity wort. That you were successful the first time indicates a certain amount of luck (very healthy yeast, high % of yeast cells in the smack pack still viable etc etc), but in order to be consistent with sugh high gravities you should make a starter. In the articles section I believe there's an article on making starters.

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

It's called a smack pack, smacking it ruptures a nutrient pack that helps the yeast cultivate. It's best to do so. That said, the yeast count in a smack pack is usually not enough to really ferment out a high gravity wort. That you were successful the first time indicates a certain amount of luck (very healthy yeast, high % of yeast cells in the smack pack still viable etc etc), but in order to be consistent with sugh high gravities you should make a starter. In the articles section I believe there's an article on making starters.

The first time I left it for the ful three hours so it was almost bursting when I cut it open to put in the wort. Thanks for your advice. How long should a starter be going for before adding it? Algis

 

[jiesu]

I've a fermenter fridge with a "fridge mate' thing - set at around 20C. Maybe I pitched in the yeast (one of those bags which you burst the inner sachet first and then leave it) too early or maybe it was still too hot. On the pack it said, either wait 3 hours or pitch it straight away. Confused, I thought damn it, it's been going 45 minutes so I pitched it in. As for the bitter, I don't think I got shit on my hands!! Thanks for your thoughts. Algis

If you pitched the yeast into wort of much more then 30C their is a very good chance you have killed them off.

I did. I boiled it for a good hour, along with some malt extract and more hops. Could it be that I just left it in the fermenter too long? - about a week? Thanks for your thoughts. Algis

No The only harm you need to worry about for leaving things in the fermenter too long is autolysis (practically the death of yeast via starvation) Which can gie a rubbery like taste to the beer, However it is very very infrequently a problem under a month in the fermenter sometimes claimed up to three months in primary.

I've used the same ice every time and use it for drinks. But it's worth a thought. Thanks. Algis

Unless you have preboiled the water used in the ice cubes into a sanitised ice cube tray I wouldn't recomend it. Just because you use it for drinking doesn't mean it is suitable for brewing, you have to remember that what ever contaminates are in the ice will have up to a few weeks in a very bacteria friendly environment to grow and and destroy. Unlike your Iced frappe.

It was one of those yeast packs with a sachet of yeast inside that you burst first and then wait. I was confused by the instructions. It said either wait 3 hours or pitch it in straight away and, as the boil had almost finished I thought 45 mins would be ok. What's the deal there? Why do they give you a choice? It was the same yeast as worked the first time. Last time I used a standard pack of Cooper's dried yeast and it still worked fine. It was just the 2nd attempt that failed. Thanks for the advice. Algis

IF you are pitching a yeast pack to a low gravity well temp controlled, well airated nutrient rich wort then not poping the smack pack wont be an issue. Or if you are making a starter. However for anything else you are going to want to pop that inner pouch and let the thing sit for several hours, I would personally recomend around 12 hours so that the yeast can get awoken by the nutrients in the pack and really start to multiply and build up their nutrition levels and energy reserves and strength so they are better euiped to tackle a more demanding wort.

The first time I left it for the ful three hours so it was almost bursting when I cut it open to put in the wort. Thanks for your advice. How long should a starter be going for before adding it? Algis

a starter should be pitched in its entirety at high krausen, That is the point where by the yeast are slowing down in their multiplication and starting to focus on eating the sugars. It is the point the yeast are the hardest working and also the strongest.
Alternativly if you didn't want to pitch the the starter wort ( and just the yeast) you can wait until the starter has finished (3days ish) fermenting put it into the fridge so the yeast drop out of suspension pour the spent wort off the yeast cake, add a small amount of sterilised water shake the yeast into suspension again and pour into your fermenter.

 

[crundle]

If you are using the same type of yeast from one brew to the next, you can reuse the yeast cake from a lower gravity brew into a higher gravity brew, giving you the cell count and yeast health you need to work in higher gravity brews.

Crundle

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

If you pitched the yeast into wort of much more then 30C their is a very good chance you have killed them off.




No The only harm you need to worry about for leaving things in the fermenter too long is autolysis (practically the death of yeast via starvation) Which can gie a rubbery like taste to the beer, However it is very very infrequently a problem under a month in the fermenter sometimes claimed up to three months in primary.





Unless you have preboiled the water used in the ice cubes into a sanitised ice cube tray I wouldn't recomend it. Just because you use it for drinking doesn't mean it is suitable for brewing, you have to remember that what ever contaminates are in the ice will have up to a few weeks in a very bacteria friendly environment to grow and and destroy. Unlike your Iced frappe.





IF you are pitching a yeast pack to a low gravity well temp controlled, well airated nutrient rich wort then not poping the smack pack wont be an issue. Or if you are making a starter. However for anything else you are going to want to pop that inner pouch and let the thing sit for several hours, I would personally recomend around 12 hours so that the yeast can get awoken by the nutrients in the pack and really start to multiply and build up their nutrition levels and energy reserves and strength so they are better euiped to tackle a more demanding wort.





a starter should be pitched in its entirety at high krausen, That is the point where by the yeast are slowing down in their multiplication and starting to focus on eating the sugars. It is the point the yeast are the hardest working and also the strongest.
Alternativly if you didn't want to pitch the the starter wort ( and just the yeast) you can wait until the starter has finished (3days ish) fermenting put it into the fridge so the yeast drop out of suspension pour the spent wort off the yeast cake, add a small amount of sterilised water shake the yeast into suspension again and pour into your fermenter.

This is great advice thanks. I just had another failure actually which is making me think it's the ice. Damn! What an idiot. Algis

 

[RobboMC]

I've been using ice for a few years now, I have some VERY clean ice cream containers that get used for nothing else.

Preboiling the water won't sanitise it unless it's at boiling temp for 5 whole minutes at least, better to
use some sort of sanitiser on your containers. The tap water is going in unboiled anyway I assume?

Whilst I'm not dirty with my sanitation I'm not overboard clean with it either, and I've never had a bad infection.

Unless you are really bad with your ice making it may not be the ice.
IMHO it's more likely to be a fermenter or tap or something similar.
In any case wash everything with sanitiser twice and do a simple K&K batch without ice.

 

[manticle]

No The only harm you need to worry about for leaving things in the fermenter too long is autolysis (practically the death of yeast via starvation) Which can gie a rubbery like taste to the beer, However it is very very infrequently a problem under a month in the fermenter sometimes claimed up to three months in primary.

Not sure I agree completely. Despite a level of alcohol and low pH helping it along, without the co2 blanket from active fermentation finished beer can be subject to both oxidation and spoilage.

Again I wouldn't worry too much about oxidation with only a week (or even a month or more) in the fermenter, particularly if there's limited headspace. However it is possible. Infection I would worry more about in hot weather but that's based on dubious personal experience.

I think it's definitely worth leaving beer on the primary or secondary yeast at ferment temps for at least a week

To the OP: As mentioned the sweetness sounds like the yeast either didn't kick off or stalled partway through. The bitterness sounds like maybe it was related to tannins from the husk.

Giving us your recipes and processes for each failed brew (and at least one of those that worked) would really help dignose the problem/s.

I'd also say that while it's admirable you are playing with things like liquid yeast and grain steeping etc, it can be good to keep the first few as simple as possible and change one step at a time. Otherwise when you run into problems it can be hard to work out why (and disheartening).

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

Not sure I agree completely. Despite a level of alcohol and low pH helping it along, without the co2 blanket from active fermentation finished beer can be subject to both oxidation and spoilage.

Again I wouldn't worry too much about oxidation with only a week (or even a month or more) in the fermenter, particularly if there's limited headspace. However it is possible. Infection I would worry more about in hot weather but that's based on dubious personal experience.

I think it's definitely worth leaving beer on the primary or secondary yeast at ferment temps for at least a week

To the OP: As mentioned the sweetness sounds like the yeast either didn't kick off or stalled partway through. The bitterness sounds like maybe it was related to tannins from the husk.

Giving us your recipes and processes for each failed brew (and at least one of those that worked) would really help dignose the problem/s.

I'd also say that while it's admirable you are playing with things like liquid yeast and grain steeping etc, it can be good to keep the first few as simple as possible and change one step at a time. Otherwise when you run into problems it can be hard to work out why (and disheartening).

Thanks for the advice. I'm going back to basics with the next one (tommorrow). I've sanitised my fermenter to the nth degree, rinsed it out 3 times with boiling water and then filled it 3/4 with water that has been boiled for 5 mins. I've put it in my beer fridge at 6C and will leave it overnight. I plan to do another extract Golden Ale ish tommorrow... 1 tin Cooper's Sparkling 1 tin Cooper's Wheat 50g Amarillo hops I'll get a sample early in the morning and get the yeast going for a few hours before hand. Then I'll get the main wort boiled up in a 5 litre pot and then add to the cold water in the fermenter. I'm expecting this to bring the wort to around 28C immediately and have the yeast pitched in straight away. Any thoughts? Algis

 

[AlgisKuliukas]

I've been using ice for a few years now, I have some VERY clean ice cream containers that get used for nothing else.

Preboiling the water won't sanitise it unless it's at boiling temp for 5 whole minutes at least, better to
use some sort of sanitiser on your containers. The tap water is going in unboiled anyway I assume?

Whilst I'm not dirty with my sanitation I'm not overboard clean with it either, and I've never had a bad infection.

Unless you are really bad with your ice making it may not be the ice.
IMHO it's more likely to be a fermenter or tap or something similar.
In any case wash everything with sanitiser twice and do a simple K&K batch without ice.

Sounds good. Thanks. Algis

 

[boybrewer]

Thanks for the advice. I'm going back to basics with the next one (tommorrow). I've sanitised my fermenter to the nth degree, rinsed it out 3 times with boiling water and then filled it 3/4 with water that has been boiled for 5 mins. I've put it in my beer fridge at 6C and will leave it overnight. I plan to do another extract Golden Ale ish tommorrow... 1 tin Cooper's Sparkling 1 tin Cooper's Wheat 50g Amarillo hops I'll get a sample early in the morning and get the yeast going for a few hours before hand. Then I'll get the main wort boiled up in a 5 litre pot and then add to the cold water in the fermenter. I'm expecting this to bring the wort to around 28C immediately and have the yeast pitched in straight away. Any thoughts? Algis

Try not to pitch the yeast into a 28*C wort . Try and get your wort down to at least 20*C if not lower . When fermenting ales they should be at a temp of around 18*C . When the temps get over 20*C you start to get different types of esters some good and some bad . That depends on what type of beer you are making . With this one you are brewing if you keep the ferment temp under 20* C you will turn out an awesome beer , if the temp climbs into the low to mid 20's you will have a beer with flavours that don't go with it , like cider or green apples . Each style of beer has its own temp range eg : Ales around 18-20*C , true lagers around 8-10*C , wheat beers 18-22*C and higher gravity beers can be up to 28 , 29* C these temp ranges will give you differing flavours that come from the yeast at different temps . I suggest you do a lot more reading . Find out about how temp can affect yeast activity and what esters they give off at different temps . Look at why ales have to be fermented around 18*C , Lagers at 12*C , etc do more research . There is a ton of info on this sight alone . Read John Palmer How to Brew you can read it online its free !

If you like ferment this latest drop at 28*C and then brew the exact same recipe at 18*C and maybe then you will see the reason why some ales are best at lower temps . Have a look at a blog on this site called Everyone should make this ,its under kits and extracts . Try and make his recipe it is one hell of a nice drop if you like honey and floral flavours .

Cheers
Beerbelly


P.S. I am not that good around computers otherwise I would have listed a few links . Do search and ask questions no matter how silly or how many times the question has been asked before there is always someone out there to help you .


PPS Look under page (3) three you will find the recipe there

 

[rendo]

Algis,

Seriously some good advice here already. Trust me, this bit of advice is an absolute GEM. Do it EVERY time you brew.

Read this link: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=10484

break apart your taps, clean and soak them. Sanitise before a new brew.....clean the thread on tap and ferm incredibly well.

rendo

This is great advice thanks. I just had another failure actually which is making me think it's the ice. Damn! What an idiot. Algis