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Trappist Blonde Yeast

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theb00f

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just attempting to culture the small amount of yeast left behind in the trappist blonde ale - steeped 100gm or so of grain for 30 minutes, cooled and poored into the remainder of one bottle, swished around and poored it into remainder of another bottle. Covered with glad wrap and a lacky.

Had little bubbles within a day and a swift shake caused the old glad wrap to look excited, and it wasn't viagra!

After a 3 or so days added 100ml of wort from my latest brew (was from the hydrometer tube - wasn't thinking and added the old starter before draining a bit extra off for the yeast).

It seemed to take off a little over the last couple of days.

So, it smells a little funky - but so did the yeast starter made with S33. Should I cool the sucker down, poor off the slop and pitch whats left or maybe do a trial starter/beer at my next brew and see how it tastes before potentially wasting 20L?

Should I expect all starters to smell bad? I have only done it a couple of times, I normally just do the straight pitch. Is it more about how well it ferments than the smell. I have read a few posts re culturing and starters but am still somewhat unsure?

Should I be wasting my time with trappist ale yeast? Gonna use it in an IPA... :icon_chickcheers:

cheers Dave

P.S. gonna check out the West Coast Brewers hopefully in March.
 

goomboogo

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You say that you steeped some grain and then added the yeast to the cooled liquid. Did you boil this liquid at any stage? If not, it could be (among others) a source of the funkiness.
 

theb00f

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You say that you steeped some grain and then added the yeast to the cooled liquid. Did you boil this liquid at any stage? If not, it could be (among others) a source of the funkiness.
true, but it was bloody hot for the first 15 minutes - used about 1L of boiling water.

It is no different (I think) from steepacks and/or steeping grain for kit brews.

Although I do also share your reservations...?
 

manticle

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Steeped grain (or the resulting liquid anyway) still needs to be boiled and when trying to reculture yeast, you want to eliminate as many other microbiological variables as you can.

Starters can smell funny until you are used to yeast and the good smells and bad smells but this one hasn't started out right.

Try a small beer or chuck and start again.
 

theb00f

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Steeped grain (or the resulting liquid anyway) still needs to be boiled and when trying to reculture yeast, you want to eliminate as many other microbiological variables as you can.

Starters can smell funny until you are used to yeast and the good smells and bad smells but this one hasn't started out right.

Try a small beer or chuck and start again.
Roger that, will give that a go - just needed some guidance/confirmation and by your pic, you look like a man who knows his liquor!

I didn't know about the boiling steeping thing? I was gonna wait till brew day but I wanted to give the yeast a go and was drinking the beer and well... you have read the story.

big cheers!
 

theb00f

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righto - so I steeped Simspon Marris Otter... Steeping would have worked better with the carapils I have or Caramalt.

however, I didn't steep it at max 78deg, it would have been closer to 90 for around 5 minutes. My question is, did I kill both the bugs and/or enzymes, therefore having excess starch in the resulting wort causing off flavours/smells? My thoughts would be that 100 is deg C would kill most of the nasties that we would consider nasties??? I am no scientist nor experienced in such matters!

Or, having not quite killing off the bugs and not quite having converted all the starch I have some wierd combination and therefore have stinky fermentedness?

Or, by chance, I have managed to get a somewhat biologically clean wort (though high in starch) that has been infected by the yeast of choice (Trappist Ale) that is fermenting happily with a fervent stench that may well rival that of a rhinocerouses ass... but however is possibly viable?

I shall still try a small bottle or two in my next AG adventure and see if it is bad or really bad. Good would be a bonus! Bad, well, I wont cry to much!

cheers Dave
 

Bizier

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Mate, at 90 degrees I doubt that you would get much other than starch water from Maris Otter. You have to consider that you have basically just made food for organisms that are not brewers yeast. Some lambic brewers ensure that their mash is going to provide such food for non-brewers yeast organisms, but it is the opposite goal of what you are doing.

You could have pasteurised your resultant liquid, but seeing as it is an exercise in yeast cultivation from a relatively small population, I would suggest you want as close to lab sterility as possible, and it falls far short of the mark.

If, however you are adventurous and potentially willing to dedicate a fermenter to funky brews (unless you ferment in glass or stainless), you could just run with it and see if the result is at all drinkable.

I would suggest if you want to culture that particular yeast, you look at some of the information out there and try again with a better informed approach. I err on the side of ultra paranoid, I aim to one day have a positive pressure HEPA filtered room for such tasks, I also wear alfoil on my head.

Another approach would be to just get a similar strain of healthy liquid yeast and use that.
 

d3vour3r

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i would have thought steeping grain for a starter isnt nessacary. your just trying to grow the yeast, not create a good beer. would jsut the usual 1040 wort using LDME be good enough to reculture yeast? I've actually never done it before, but it seems a waste of grain. also if u want a wort with fermentable sugars u need to mash/steep the grain at around 66 degrees. 90 degrees like Bizier has alreay said imparts starch and complex carbs with brewers yeast doesnt eat, but other nasties do.

i reckon your best bet is to make up a 1040 wort using LDME, boil it for 10 mins then cool and add to the bottle to reculture. then repeat as nessacary till u have the right amount of yeast for a brew.
 

manticle

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righto - so I steeped Simspon Marris Otter... Steeping would have worked better with the carapils I have or Caramalt.

however, I didn't steep it at max 78deg, it would have been closer to 90 for around 5 minutes. My question is, did I kill both the bugs and/or enzymes, therefore having excess starch in the resulting wort causing off flavours/smells? My thoughts would be that 100 is deg C would kill most of the nasties that we would consider nasties??? I am no scientist nor experienced in such matters!

Or, having not quite killing off the bugs and not quite having converted all the starch I have some wierd combination and therefore have stinky fermentedness?

Or, by chance, I have managed to get a somewhat biologically clean wort (though high in starch) that has been infected by the yeast of choice (Trappist Ale) that is fermenting happily with a fervent stench that may well rival that of a rhinocerouses ass... but however is possibly viable?

I shall still try a small bottle or two in my next AG adventure and see if it is bad or really bad. Good would be a bonus! Bad, well, I wont cry to much!

cheers Dave
As Bizier said, you are best sticking to the already available methods rather than trying to invent new ones. The tried and true methods aren't anymore difficult than what you have done and will actually work. Maris otter is a base malt and as such needs to be mashed, not steeeped. All reslutant grain liquor, whether from mashing or steeping needs to be boiled, not only to kill bugs but to precipitate proteinds and a variety of other things (although a lot of that variety is more pertinent to whole and partial mashes.
 

raven19

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i reckon your best bet is to make up a 1040 wort using LDME, boil it for 10 mins then cool and add to the bottle to reculture. then repeat as nessacary till u have the right amount of yeast for a brew.
+3 on this.

Having some LDME on hand always comes in handy around the brewery.

100 grams per litre of water will get you to about 1040 SG wort. So for starting it up from yeast in a bottle I would go 10gms LDME with 100ml water boiled then chilled prior to adding to bottle yeast.

Next time flame the lip of the bottle after pouring out the beer in one tip (leaving the last portion of beery/slurry goodness in the bottle of course).
 

theb00f

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thanks for the input fellas - as mentioned it was a last minute "maybe I should try and culture this yeast" moment and I was unprepared. However, whatever it is, it is still ALIVE and I will see if it works on a couple of 750ml bottles. If it is bad I haven't lost much (but will still cry). If it is ok, I will put it down to good luck. If it is great I will still put it down to good luck and either try to do it again using the proven methods mentioned (namely NOT steeping grain) or just buy a belgian ale yeast and go for it!

Cheers Dave
 

super_simian

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righto - so I steeped Simspon Marris Otter... Steeping would have worked better with the carapils I have or Caramalt.
Yes and no. Those spec grains can be steeped, but wouldn't make anything in the way of food for the yeast. And the steeping liquor still needs to be boiled. Just use malt extract or a properly mashed and boiled (and cooled!) wort next time.
 

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