Transferring to Keg. What am I doing wrong!!

[axematt]

Gday all.

I have read the posts on this forum and others on this topic and it seems that I am doing things right but the evidence seems to prove otherwise. I am trying to transfer from my SS fermenter to a corny keg.

I have a silicon hose from the fermenter to a quick disconnect (black and I have tried the grey) to the liquid out post of the keg. Prior to connecting I have filled the keg with Co2 and then purged it so the pressure is not forcing back up the fermenter but it bloody takes forever! I'm talking an hour or so, with constant moving and wriggling or disconnecting of the connection to the keg to get things moving as it stops. I am pulling the Release valve as its filling as well. I am new to the world of home brewing but I'm getting really tasty beer from advice from this forum but It's this last part of the process that I can't get right. Any help really appreciated!

Cheers

 

[fdsaasdf]

My keg fills from a SS brewbucket to keg through a liquid QD on the OUT post take around 20 minutes. Instead of pulling the release valve you can just place a gas disconnect on the IN post to bleed the air as the keg fills with liquid.

I suggest you check if you have sediment or something else obstructing the tap, hose or QD.

 

[axematt]

Thanks mate. That's a good suggestion on the gas in connector, will do that next time. 20 mins, HA! I wish that was my case. Do you pour off the first litre or so before you connect to the keg?

 

[fdsaasdf]

I check a small sample first (50mL or so) to do a refractometer gravity reading and check that it runs off ok. If any sediment I'll pull a 750mL bottle off (which I'll either bottle carb or shake up for an early sample) before kegging.

 

[axematt]

I'll try and do a bit of a check then first, but otherwise it seems I'm doing everything right, yeah? must be a sediment thing then.

 

[peteru]

I've had exactly the same problem last week. I was using the black premium plastic Keg King disconnects. I replaced those with stainless steel disconnects and the problem went away. My current suspicion is that there are a lot of posts and disconnects that don't have matching forces on the springs that push the poppet / pin. As a result, you end up with connections that don't have a good opening. This can lead to slow / stuck pours or transfers, foaming and air ingress.

I think I'll be upgrading all my disconnects to stainless steel MFL very soon. In the meantime, examining the disconnect and post springs (and possibly stretching them as required) may work.

 

[axematt]

Good on Ya peteru.
Another avenue to explore. That theory may have some weight as I have used different connectors with varying results ( mostly crap, still takes forever) even the grey one but not the SS ones. I might modify/stretch or cut down the springs in the meantime and see what happens.

 

[hopnotic]

How do you know when to stop filling the keg if you don't have the lid off to check head space?

 

[axematt]

I pretty much only do a 20 litre brew, I probably drain off maybe 500ml doing gravity and taste checks during fermentation and then I'll leave at least 1 litre at the bottom of the fermenter after putting in the keg so I know I will definitely be safe head space wise without looking.

 

[Wobbly74]

I do it one of 3 ways -

1. Cold crashed beer into warm keg, use the condensation mark as a guide
2. Use a luggage scale to weigh the keg and stop once it gets to about 19kg on top of the keg weight
3. Fill until it overflows, then close the prv, then add some pressure to push the liquid back into the fermenter until the bubbling noise stops

 

[billygoat]

Have you got the lid off the fermenter or open to atmosphere?

 

[axematt]

Gday billgoat. Yeah mate, I usually have a cloth soaked in starsan which I lay over the bung after I have taken the blow off tube from the fermenter. No good?

 

[billygoat]

Gday billgoat. Yeah mate, I usually have a cloth soaked in starsan which I lay over the bung after I have taken the blow off tube from the fermenter. No good?

That's fine.
I was just making sure you weren't creating a vacuum by having the fermenter air tight. Makes it hard to drain the fermenter if it's trying to suck air and it can't.

 

[JoeB]

I'll start by saying I have been bleeding excess air pressure by leaving the release valve open. I had the same sort of issue, and found that back-pressure from the Keg was the issue. Resolved by increasing the height difference between the fermenter and keg by about a foot and a half. I found I needed greater drop for gravity feed to fill against increasing liquid pressure in the keg. My setup was a bench at just over the height of the keg with the fermenter on it, keg on the ground. Changed that the height of the keg by something over a foot and it was fine.

 

[Barry]

I have a keg fill of sanitiser (at a safe dosage rate), push this into another keg. Connect keg that is full of CO2 to Ss Brew Bucket via a disconnect on the outpost and tubing to the tap. Also have disconnect on the gas post with tubing fitting into the stopper on the fermenter. Open tap and beer flows into keg and the CO2 flows into the fermenter, minimising oxygen. Seems to work well.
Hope this helps even though it repeats previous good advice.

 

[Clevohead]

My steps that I use:
1. Clean and stellarsan keg.
2. Charge up to 10-15psi co2, purge air out and re-charge to 10-15psi. (I travel to brew club, so I do this at home and load keg into car)
3. I connect my fill hose rig to my fermenter, approx 1.5m of beer line with a black liquid/out connect.
4. Equalize keg to atmosphere pressure via pressure release valve. co2 stays in keg as it is heavier than air. Transporting pressurized gives me chance to make sure all my seals are good, any repairs needed I do at brew club, and re-pressurize there, and wait 20 minutes or so to ensure no bleed down.
5. Connect black fill line up to liquid post, and remove air lock from fermenter (we ferment in plastic drums ala Coopers kits)
6. fit grey gas/in connect with line up to keg, this line I dangle into a bucket/jug.
7. Tilt and prop keg on a 50mm piece of wood with gas post on the low side, once the keg is filled and sitting level this gives the gas post just the right clearance from the beer.
8. Have a beer and watch fill.
9. once beer comes out gas post into bucket generally after about 4-5min, turn tap off on fermenter, and disconnect fittings and hoses. (as the beer enters the bottom of the keg it pushes the co2 out the gas post, as co2 is heavier than air you have a co2 cushion sitting on top of the beer and this prevents any exposure to oxygen.)
10. Pressurize and purge co2, I have a sodastream adapter and reg at brew club for this, and then give a purge to clear any possible oxygen ingress, pressure up 10-15psi, load up and go home.

That is how I do it, hpe it helps.

 

[S.E]

Gday billgoat. Yeah mate, I usually have a cloth soaked in starsan which I lay over the bung after I have taken the blow off tube from the fermenter. No good?

I think billygoat is on the right track. The soaked cloth over the bung hole is probably what’s causing the problem. It won’t cause a complete vacuum but it’s going to slow the flow right down.

Next time try without the cloth, just leave the bung hole open or leave the blow off open so it can draw air unrestricted.

Or as you are purging and filling your keg with co2 you could do a closed loop transfer. Fit a disconnect and line to the keg gas post and push the line tightly into the bung hole or blow off so the co2 from the keg is filling the fermenter and replacing the beer as it is flowing into the keg.

 

[axematt]

Gday all.

Thanks for all the advice, some interesting ideas to incorporate in my next fill which is about 2 days away. It seems I'm nearly on the right track but hopefully with a few tweeks it will work much better, coz a gotta say it, the slow transfer is a pain the ass! I'll ditch the cloth method and maybe give the closed loop transfer a shot. I don't think it is crud that's affecting the rate coz when I open the tap on the fermenter to transfer it flows fine for about 1 minute then starts slowing down and I'm watching this happen and I don't see any chunks of stuff running down the tube. So maybe suction/vacuum issue.

 

[S.E]

Gday all.

Thanks for all the advice, some interesting ideas to incorporate in my next fill which is about 2 days away. It seems I'm nearly on the right track but hopefully with a few tweeks it will work much better, coz a gotta say it, the slow transfer is a pain the ass! I'll ditch the cloth method and maybe give the closed loop transfer a shot. I don't think it is crud that's affecting the rate coz when I open the tap on the fermenter to transfer it flows fine for about 1 minute then starts slowing down and I'm watching this happen and I don't see any chunks of stuff running down the tube. So maybe suction/vacuum issue.

From what you are describing the cloth over the bung hole is most likely the cause of the slow transfer.

If you are going to try a closed loop transfer although not difficult just be aware it can be a bit fiddly at times and also slow the flow. You may find it a bit tricky to get the flow started if there is any restriction or back pressure in the gas line. For instance if you take your fermenter out of a cold fridge after crash chilling and try a transfer in a warm environment the beer will start expanding and push co2 from the fermenter into the keg which will slow or stop the flow of beer.

Give it a go but you may be better off just transferring with the fermenter open and letting in air to start with till you get the basics right.

All this business of purging kegs and keeping the fermenter sealed are advanced or improved brewing methods and can add their own complications to the brew day of a beginner.

It’s easy to get the impression from reading forums and modern HB books that air getting into the keg or fermenter will kill your beer but it won’t.

When I started brewing it was common practise to open ferment with no lid on the fermenter but that is virtually unheard of in home brewing these days. I still do it sometimes when the mood takes me. I usually use a blow off but often don’t fit it or seal the lid tight until fermentation is well and truly underway.

 

[axematt]

Gday S.E.

Give it a go but you may be better off just transferring with the fermenter open and letting in air to start with till you get the basics right.

All this business of purging kegs and keeping the fermenter sealed are advanced or improved brewing methods and can add their own complications to the brew day of a beginner.

Spot on advise! I'll get the basics right first and expand from there. I'll be doing this for along while, so there's time, coz how good is this home brewing thing! super addictive. Thanks again to all for their advice