Thoughts On The Use Of Feed-lot Grade Grains In Brewing

[Infinitee]

Hey y'all funky, fermentarians.

I know that this topic may well earn me the odd <_< ...

But I don't see why we shouldn't be using cheaper grains when the amount of boiling they go through
Should destroy 99.9-100% of all grain-borne bacteria and spores.

Feed-lot grade grain is ridiculously cheap and can be bought in varying amounts (not just the bulkiest of bulk buys)
(Or even looted from your work, if -oh I dunno, say- you worked in the agricultural dept. of a school)

The grains should still malt fine (provided they aren't too old), you can buy them uncracked or cracked ...
Did I mention they are cheap?

You all might think I'm a scrooge mcduck ...
And you'd be right - but no harm in that, it's a reason that many of us homebrew in the first place.

So any positive thoughts, advice, experience etc ...

Thanks for the space to query you all.
:icon_cheers:

 

[brettprevans]

correct me if im wrong (and I dont think I am). feed grain hasnt been malted. hence unless your going to malt it yourself, its unsuitable.

thats why we dont use it

edit: the maltsters job is to malt grain so we get the variations of grain and hence so many grain types (base, crystal, specialty etc). this also modifies the grain so its easier to brew with. I doubt they go to the expense of doing this, just to feed it to animals.

also there are grades of grain. malting companies only take specific grades of grain.

 

[MarkBastard]

Do you even know what malting is? (Aimed at Infinitee)

 

[j1gsaw]

A pain in the arse i always thought! Malting that is..

 

[brettprevans]

Kleiny jump in and add anything ive missed.

edit: i forgot to add a <_<

i suppose if you dont know what malting is, then its a logical question.

 

[Kleiny]

Feed grade barley is feed grade because it is generally out of good brewing parameters e.g too high or too low in protein, frost damaged, poor grain size or uneven in its grains with too many wild oat seeds or dirt etc, not viable or in dormancy.

This is why it is cheap and not bought by the maltings or large breweries. (good cow/sheep food but not good for malting)

Yes you can get good quality feedgrade barley that is just out side what a maltster was looking for but how would you know unless you get the grain sampled and lab tested before you went to the trouble of malting it.

Infinitee if you want to try go ahead nobody will stop you but please post your results.

Good luck
Kleiny

 

[bigfridge]

Hey y'all funky, fermentarians.

I know that this topic may well earn me the odd <_< ...

But I don't see why we shouldn't be using cheaper grains when the amount of boiling they go through
Should destroy 99.9-100% of all grain-borne bacteria and spores.

Feed-lot grade grain is ridiculously cheap and can be bought in varying amounts (not just the bulkiest of bulk buys)
(Or even looted from your work, if -oh I dunno, say- you worked in the agricultural dept. of a school)

The grains should still malt fine (provided they aren't too old), you can buy them uncracked or cracked ...
Did I mention they are cheap?

You all might think I'm a scrooge mcduck ...
And you'd be right - but no harm in that, it's a reason that many of us homebrew in the first place.

So any positive thoughts, advice, experience etc ...

Thanks for the space to query you all.

Hi Infinitee,

These grains are fine to use provided that you are wanting to make a 'barnyard bitter' or 'feed-lot lager'

But you need to realise that every grain farmer hopes to get their grain graded as 'malting quality' and it only ends up in the feed stores when it has been rejected as being unsuitable for malting. This is usually due to the Nitrogen levels being too high. It has nothing to do with bacteria, spores or age.

Malt has to be a lot more expensive than grain due to the high energy, water and waste disposal costs required to malt grain. Then there is the 6-12 % loss in grain weight during malting arising from the rootlets and respiration.

There is a lot of information on malting in the brewing textbooks and on the net and you will be able to malt feed grade barley ok, but you will probably get uneven/low germination, poor modification and produce malt that gives a hazy, poorly flavoured beer. You will also find that you can't produce enough malt to keep up with your brewing needs due to the time and effort needed.


HTH,
David

 

[Thirsty Boy]

If you had wheat, barley, rye, corn etc - you could use them as unmalted adjuncts to dilute the cost of your malt. But as the guys have mentioned, it would be a crapshoot on the quality of the grains and what they would be adding to your brew. If you could get an analysis sheet for the grain - it might help to work out whether they would be suitable or not. There is a lot more leeway on the quality of unmalted adjunct grain than there is on grain destined for malting.

I don't feel your return would be big enough to be worth the bother or the potential quality impact on your beer... but you could I suppose save yourself 25-30% on your malt bill if you chose to become an adjunct brewer.

 

[fcmcg]

.

But I don't see why we shouldn't be using cheaper grains when the amount of boiling they go through
Should destroy 99.9-100% of all grain-borne bacteria and spores.

Feed-lot grade grain is ridiculously cheap and can be bought in varying amounts (not just the bulkiest of bulk buys)
(Or even looted from your work, if -oh I dunno, say- you worked in the agricultural dept. of a school)

I have just finished reading the section in Palmers " How to Brew" about grain ( and whilst i think i'll need to re-read it at least 3 times to fully understand it ) ,it does explain why pretty much only "two row " and "six row" malted barley is used( after it has been malted )..As others have pointed out...feed gradee is really no good for brewing , hence it being feed grade ! Would have been good if we could use it...nice thought...but no...
my 2c
Cheers

 

[glaab]

how about feed grade raw wheat?, couldn't you use that in a recipe requiring raw wheat?

 

[manticle]

I'm all for people experimenting if there's a purpose but the money saving is already significant enough for me to continue brewing my own. I love the processes of making grain based beer (and my processes are very long winded) but there's no way I could even consider going to the effort of malting my own grain and unmalted adjuncts really aren't expensive enough to warrant me worrying about that either.

Cattle feed and bird poop ale eh?

Interesting take on things.

 

[Effect]

how about feed grade raw wheat?, couldn't you use that in a recipe requiring raw wheat?

that is exactly what I was thinking...

 

[Darren]

Cattle feed and bird poop ale eh?

Typical negative input from Mr. Manticle, and no your point of view was not an intersting take on things.

Tonnes and tonnes of malting grade barley goes to "animal feed". In actuality, unless a farmer is on the "in" he wont sell his grain to maltsters no matter how "perfect for malting" his/her grain is.

I would encourage everyone to look at the science of malting. Chances are that exceptional beer can be made from "reject" grain.

However, it is probably better to get the grain from the farm if possible.

cheers

Darren

 

[manticle]

Typical negative input from Mr. Manticle, and no your point of view was not an intersting take on things.



cheers

Darren

Typical? Read a bit champ. I'm not particularly negative on this forum. It's a little bit pot/kettle coming from you anyway.

Firstly- the OP mentioned in a previous post that he had experiemented with inoculating his beer with bird faeces.

Secondly, in recent discussions with yourself, despite vehemently disagreeing with the way you post, I've made an effort to be polite and actually draw out your reasoning behind things (something you have persistently ignored). I'd rather discuss and debate without this kind of crap if it's all the same with you. I've said before I think you've probably got a hell of a lot of knowledge about brewing but you rarely choose to share it, preferring to make disparaging posts about anyone who no-chills, brews in a bag or judges a competition.

 

[Darren]

Typical? Read a bit champ. I'm not particularly negative on this forum. It's a little bit pot/kettle coming from you anyway.

Firstly- the OP mentioned in a previous post that he had experiemented with inoculating his beer with bird faeces.

Secondly, in recent discussions with yourself, despite vehemently disagreeing with the way you post, I've made an effort to be polite and actually draw out your reasoning behind things (something you have persistently ignored). I'd rather discuss and debate without this kind of crap if it's all the same with you. I've said before I think you've probably got a hell of a lot of knowledge about brewing but you rarely choose to share it, preferring to make disparaging posts about anyone who no-chills, brews in a bag or judges a competition.

All fair points and I acknowledge an unfairness in my post, sorry.

However, the posting by you had the "bird poo" connotations whereas ALL malted barley will have a significant amount of this type of contamination.

My original post was to encourage debate and learning about the malting process (which really is not that hard unless you want to make a million tonnes of the stuff).

cheers

darren

 

[manticle]

All fair points and I acknowledge an unfairness in my post, sorry.

However, the posting by you had the "bird poo" connotations whereas ALL malted barley will have a significant amount of this type of contamination.

My original post was to encourage debate and learning about the malting process (which really is not that hard unless you want to make a million tonnes of the stuff).

cheers

darren

My bird poo comment was made lightheartedly and referred entirely to the OP's post in another thread: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...20&start=20.

If I lived on a large property or had more time, I'd love to learn the process of malting. These things interest me greatly. I just meant that it would be impracticable for me at this point in time and I had no intention of discouraging anyone else from doing it.

And apology accepted and appreciated.

 

[Muggus]

Interesting thread.

I was just wondering, what if you were to kiln/bake/roast these poorer quality grains and make you own roasted barley?
Considering the small amounts of roasted barley usually used in a beer, and the fact that starch conversion really isn't all that important for such a thing, would grain of lesser quality be a viable option for such a thing?

 

[MHB]

Im of the I dont get it school of thought, I work long hours, the too few opportunities I get to brew I want to make the best beer I can and screw everything else.
I will use the best Malt Hops Water and Yeast I can get my hands on, the 5-6 hours committed to every brew are worth more to me than chancing less than the best results to save a piddling amount of money on ingredients.
The difference between using the lowest grade crap you can get and the very best is going to be at worst $10-15 per brew, $3/hour if that, for Christ sake get a grip on reality make GOOD BEER, the price looks after its self.
MHB

 

[AndrewQLD]

I'm of the "I don't get it" school of thought, I work long hours, the too few opportunities I get to brew I want to make the best beer I can and screw everything else.
I will use the best Malt Hops Water and Yeast I can get my hands on, the 5-6 hours committed to every brew are worth more to me than chancing less than the best results to save a piddling amount of money on ingredients.
The difference between using the lowest grade crap you can get and the very best is going to be at worst $10-15 per brew, $3/hour if that, for Christ sake get a grip on reality make GOOD BEER, the price looks after its self.
MHB

Nicely put MHB, although it's nice to think you can take the cost saving to the Nth degree, is it really worth it? Not to me. Good consistent ingredients along with good brewing practices means good beer.
But I do disagree with your 5-6 hour brew day, cut that down to 3-4 hours and I'm with you.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[glaab]

the "reality" is that $10-$15 is a lot of money to some, like students/ pensioners or whatever, it seems like a reasonable question to post to me, but maybe I got no grip on reality