Thoughts On The Use Of Feed-lot Grade Grains In Brewing

[AndrewQLD]

the "reality" is that $10-$15 is a lot of money to some, like students/ pensioners or whatever, it seems like a reasonable question to post to me, but maybe I got no grip on reality

I suppose that depends on whether you brew to create something that rivals what you can buy commercially or whether you brew just to get pissed.
And while $10-$15 dollars is a lot to some, including me, it's a lot more if you just have to tip it down the drain.
But experimentation is great, have fun I say, try it and judge for yourself.

Andrew

 

[Screwtop]

I don't see why we shouldn't be using cheaper grains when the amount of boiling they go through
Should destroy 99.9-100% of all grain-borne bacteria and spores.

Feed-lot grade grain is ridiculously cheap and can be bought in varying amounts (not just the bulkiest of bulk buys)
(Or even looted from your work, if -oh I dunno, say- you worked in the agricultural dept. of a school)

So any positive thoughts, advice, experience etc ...

Steady Screwy..........Steady.......Steady.

Deep Breath......................think positive thoughts...................relax....................bring down the blood pressure..............Ahhhhh......Better


I've had a positive thought...............buy some out of date malt extract or kit cans, they would be cheap too, make better beer and you wouldn't have to boil it.

:blink:

 

[AndrewQLD]

Steady Screwy..........Steady.......Steady.

Deep Breath......................think positive thoughts...................relax....................bring down the blood pressure..............Ahhhhh......Better


I've had a positive thought...............buy some out of date malt extract or kit cans, they would be cheap too, make better beer and you wouldn't have to boil it.

:blink:

I liked your reply to Screwy.
Hope you are keeping well mate.

Andrew

 

[Screwtop]

All fair points and I acknowledge an unfairness in my post, sorry.

cheers

darren

Dazza..................get a fkucing grip man :lol:

Screwy

 

[glaab]

right or wrong, I don't see the need to be insulting and/ or condescending

 

[ausdb]

If you had wheat, barley, rye, corn etc - you could use them as unmalted adjuncts to dilute the cost of your malt. But as the guys have mentioned, it would be a crapshoot on the quality of the grains and what they would be adding to your brew. If you could get an analysis sheet for the grain - it might help to work out whether they would be suitable or not. There is a lot more leeway on the quality of unmalted adjunct grain than there is on grain destined for malting.

I don't feel your return would be big enough to be worth the bother or the potential quality impact on your beer... but you could I suppose save yourself 25-30% on your malt bill if you chose to become an adjunct brewer.

My Father in Law has a wheat / sheep farm in the Mid West of WA and also grows a bit of barley (Gairdner a malting grade) from time to time but I could never be ar$ed going to the trouble of malting my own, as the others have said way too much time and effort involved with no guarantee of success even if the raw material is free to me.

On the other hand when I make a Wit beer, I have been known to grab a few kg of raw wheat out of the silo when I'm up visiting and have found it makes a very nice "Dandaragan White". This also gets him a lot of bragging points when it is served at a party with his mates when he tells them where part of the grain bill came from :icon_cheers:

 

[schooey]

Tonnes and tonnes of malting grade barley goes to "animal feed". In actuality, unless a farmer is on the "in" he wont sell his grain to maltsters no matter how "perfect for malting" his/her grain is.

I'm kind of curious about this statement... I grew up on the dirt as a kid, and the old man used to grow a thousand acres of Barley as winter rotational if he thought the season was up for it. On the off year when the rain came at the right time, and the heat and humidity were in the right places we would get malting grade Barley. The difference was about 2.5-3 times the price of feed Barley. As I remember it, the old man never had an 'in' it was just tested at the local AWB silo and if it went malting, you got the quoted price on the day...

Maybe it was different down there in the south, or recent times have changed things, because I speak of 20 years ago. But I have no memory of anyone being pissed off that they couldn't sell they're Malting quality Barley, only being pissed off that it didn't make malting quality

 

[Darren]

Hey,

Lets put things into perspective. Anyone can go buy the "freshest" malt, hops, extract or can of the finest from a HB shop.

Do homebrewers think that they are "offered" the highest quality malt by buying through a shop-front?

Do HB shop owners think that they have the buying power to source the finest of the malts?

Chances are that HB shops are selling out of date, sub-standard malts at premium prices (albeit accidently).

Always ensure that a HB shop supplies a certificate of analysis (COA) with malts bought from a HB shop (particularly specialty malts).

cheers

Darren

 

[bum]

Chances are that HB shops are selling out of date, sub-standard malts at premium prices (albeit accidently).

Entirely likely from time to time. Of course, chances are that these malts are still going to be better for brewing than un-malted feed.

[EDIT: had to change a word or two - who knew drinking 6.5% IPAs in 34 degree weather when you are sick was a bad idea?]

 

[AndrewQLD]

Hey,

Lets put things into perspective. Anyone can go buy the "freshest" malt, hops, extract or can of the finest from a HB shop.

Do homebrewers think that they are "offered" the highest quality malt by buying through a shop-front?

Do HB shop owners think that they have the buying power to source the finest of the malts?

Chances are that HB shops are selling out of date, sub-standard malts at premium prices (albeit accidently).

Always ensure that a HB shop supplies a certificate of analysis (COA) with malts bought from a HB shop (particularly specialty malts).

cheers

Darren

As cynical as he sounds Darren is right .

Brewers malt is supplied from the malsters with a COA for a reason, so the brewer knows EXACTLY what they are brewing with so they can make adjustments on brew day for repeatability ect.

However I don't agree with your comments regarding brew shops selling sub standard or out of date grain, that would depend on turnover, not good to generalise.

Andrew

 

[raven19]

My brother in law's father produces malting grade barley on their farm up north. I have every intention at some stage to brew some beers using 20 - 40% of this unmalted barley in a longer mash. I shall introduce a protein rest at around 50 degrees also.

If it was not malting grade I would not be bothering with it personally...

Use it as an adjunct and give it a whirl I say!

 

[manticle]

Hey,


Chances are that HB shops are selling out of date, sub-standard malts at premium prices (albeit accidently).

Always ensure that a HB shop supplies a certificate of analysis (COA) with malts bought from a HB shop (particularly specialty malts).

cheers

Darren

It's true that any shop can sell anything of dubious quality. I've no doubt some do and that some of them are brewing supply shops. Just because it comes from a shop doesn't mean it's great.

However, my experience of specialist and hobby shops is that generally they are aware that they are dealing with people who are not only passionate about their craft but knowledgeable about it too. Their business often relies on providing the quality that is demanded. I would expect many good brewers would notice if their malt was stale due to the product that would result and my experience of good retailers suggests most of them are avid homebrewers like most of us. Their market is in providing nerds with stuff that meets their nerdy criteria (we are essentially beer nerds).

Note I'm talking about specialist shops and the advice on getting a COA is probably sound. Personally I've never heard of it. I'm assuming it's like an MSDS for malt and other types of grain and gives the date and chemical analysis of the product?

 

[Darren]

Raven,

Malt a bit and let us know how it goes.

Happy to give some a go myself for a bit of fun.

cheers

Darren

 

[Darren]

Raven,

Malt a bit and let us know how it goes.

Happy to give some a go myself for a bit of fun.

cheers

Darren

 

[Darren]

It's true that any shop can sell anything of dubious quality. I've no doubt some do and that some of them are brewing supply shops. Just because it comes from a shop doesn't mean it's great.


Note I'm talking about specialist shops and the advice on getting a COA is probably sound. Personally I've never heard of it. I'm assuming it's like an MSDS for malt and other types of grain and gives the date and chemical analysis of the product?

Manticle,

Tells you year of harvest which is of the most important concern for this thread.

cheers

Darren

 

[brettprevans]

Who would have thought this thread would end positively. A good experiment? Actually it probably much like wine makers in years if excess and flogging off great wine as clean skins. It's all about being in the know and geting good quality cheaply. For those if us in the smoke we probably have to rely on lhbs proving us with good quality malt for our $ as we want to make great beer. One assumes anyone AGing wants to make great beer not ok beer. Just an assumtionand can't be arses going into detail whilst having to type it out on an iPhone.

 

[manticle]

Manticle,

Tells you year of harvest which is of the most important concern for this thread.

cheers

Darren

Cool. I'll check for one next time I order. Any suggestions on how old is too old?

 

[Mantis]

Cool. I'll check for one next time I order. Any suggestions on how old is too old?

Check if the bag is hand stiched with one of those big bag needles

Sorry, tooo many pints and my brain is hurting from reading this thread h34r:

 

[bigfridge]

Cool. I'll check for one next time I order. Any suggestions on how old is too old?

I do - but I won't be bothering to contribute to this thread any further.

We had the OP ask a sensible question based on wrong or incomplete information. This information was corrected and added to by a number of posters (none of whom got a word of thanks) and then the flame wars and slanging match started followed by Daren making some outrageous claims about farmers 'purposely' avoiding getting 2x the price possible for their barley. BTW feed barley is around $140/tonne and malting grade $250/t.

Tony questions Darrens assertions based on his experience growing up on a Barley farm, which Darren choses to ignore - following up with some rant about how Brewshops get poor quality malt so you may as well malt your own. I don't think that you have been in many malt distributor warehouses Daren, but I have never seen a dividing wall that has 'brewery quality' malt on one side and 'left over home brew **** malt' on the other. It is all good quality stuff - w ehave access to the finest ingredients in the world.

Guess that it is just another typical night on AHB, so goodbye from me.

 

[bum]

At least Darren didn't start his post with "I have relevant information that would answer an earnest question from a serious poster (and possibly help numerous others) but elect to withhold it because I am better than this thread."