Tether: END OF - BIAB

[Adr_0]

Acarey also mentions 'super bitter' so astringency may not be his problem, it might just be he's extracting more IBU's than planned through NC.

I agree with BBB in that you should have another brewer taste your brews to evaluate. I used to mash out to 78C and squeeze bujeesus out of the bag when BIABing. I used an IC and have never NC FWIW.

I'm no beer judge but from what I know, astringency is like sucking on a tea bag and has a dry mouthfeel like banana peel. Is this what you're getting?

Ah yeah, good point. What do you typically do with no chill recipes, add 15min to each of the boil times in the software and knock the hops back to compensate?

 

[Logman]

Acarey also mentions 'super bitter' so astringency may not be his problem, it might just be he's extracting more IBU's than planned through NC.

What he said ^^^^. I just kept cutting back further and further until I liked the taste.

 

[bradsbrew]

So you do your 1 minute hop edition then let sit for 30 minutes then whirlpool then let it sit another 30 minutes? if so there is your problem IMO, you have had your bittering hops in for 2 hours and your 1 minute in for 61 minutes.
I no chill pretty much 100% of the time, every now and then in summer, I will throw the cubes in the pool and have a swim with them for an hour or so then throw them in the fermeezer.(slow chill)

I had problems early on with beers being overly bitter. My process is now

bittering edition is no earlier than 45Min from end of boil.
Any other editions are done between 20 and 0 minutes from the flame out.
I turn the heat off the kettle, then add my zero edition/flame out hops.
Give it a good whirlpool for 2 minutes.
Put the lid on then then drain to cubes 15 to 20 minutes later.

Cheers

 

[Adr_0]

So you do your 1 minute hop edition then let sit for 30 minutes then whirlpool then let it sit another 30 minutes? if so there is your problem IMO, you have had your bittering hops in for 2 hours and your 1 minute in for 61 minutes.
I no chill pretty much 100% of the time, every now and then in summer, I will throw the cubes in the pool and have a swim with them for an hour or so then throw them in the fermeezer.(slow chill)

I had problems early on with beers being overly bitter. My process is now

bittering edition is no earlier than 45Min from end of boil.
Any other editions are done between 20 and 0 minutes from the flame out.
I turn the heat off the kettle, then add my zero edition/flame out hops.
Give it a good whirlpool for 2 minutes.
Put the lid on then then drain to cubes 15 to 20 minutes later.

Cheers

Bust out 2.5km while your cubes are chilling? Sounds good to me...

Looking at the chunk of NS being added from 20-min to 'flameout', that sounds great if you are going to IC or run through a plate chiller... but that would be horrifically bitter if you let it sit around 80-100°C for a further hour or so. Ouch.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I will throw the cubes in the pool and have a swim with them for an hour or so

That is so cute.

Personally I like to see them in their natural environment.




But getting back to No Chill. It will increase your bitternes, but you did say that you have reduced your hop amounts. So that shouldnt be the prob

 

[acarey]

The latest one I have (crash chilling for 2 days at the moment) to try and fix the problem is the same as above except the hops are as follows:

5gm neslon @ 20
16g nelson @ 10
30g nelson @ 1

same grain bill.

should have been 20 IBU according to brew mate no chill adjusted

Had the same taste post boil but I can't speak for the finished beer (yet). I''l go keg it now and report back, but it still had a bit of the taste in my gravity samples

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Pre ferm samples will taste rather bitter. A lot more bitter then the finished ber

 

[roverfj1200]

Will Mate I'm not a seasoned beer maker but will pop my 2 cents in. I have made 20 so BIAB no chill brews.

The recipe you posted has only base malt and wheat. You have no sweetness to off set the hops. Add say 200g of BB caramalt.

I say this as I have been trying to find balance in my beers.

No chill.... Try this. I found it hard to get IBU's right with no chill. I now get the cube in to the pool to chill ASAP. If you have no pool do some single addition beers like.

4kg pale malt
200g BB caramalt
200g wheat.
20g Centennial @60
65 mash for 90 min
use US05 at 18

With no late hopping you bitterness will not run away on you. You can FWH to smooth this one out.

Even 200g of Munich 1 will throw the balance of this beer out. Build on the basics to learn what adds what to your beer.
I started making single addition beers to see what each hop brings to the bittering.

Yeast.. Work with yeasts you can control. Yeast can add some weird flavours to your beer if not treated right .

Hope this helps

Cheers

 

[HBHB]

Check out to see if you have a local brew club in the area. If so, they may have a few members to assist with having a taste and pin pointing the issue. What's bitterness to one person, may be perceived differently to another (like as in astringency). If you're a customer of a decent HBS locally, drop by with a bottle and try to get them to appraise what's going on.

At this point, it's just guesswork.

Martin

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Are you only using Nelson Savignon...

It can be a bit " out there " taste wise if you are not use to it

 

[bradsbrew]

That is so cute.

Personally I like to see them in their natural environment.




But getting back to No Chill. It will increase your bitternes, but you did say that you have reduced your hop amounts. So that shouldnt be the prob

Stu, even if he has adjusted his hops and allowed for no chill. I would think that the no chill calc would still be way out if he has left his flame out addition sitting in the wort for 1 hour?


Oh and when I say take them for a swim, I mean sit in the pool with them whilst drinking their predecessor and talking to them :blink:

Cheers

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Stu, even if he has adjusted his hops and allowed for no chill. I would think that the no chill calc would still be way out if he has left his flame out addition sitting in the wort for 1 hour?

Good point.

Looking at the hop utilisation chart, your going from roughly 5% @1m to about 30-35%. @ 60min

 

[Judanero]

Check out to see if you have a local brew club in the area. If so, they may have a few members to assist with having a taste and pin pointing the issue. What's bitterness to one person, may be perceived differently to another (like as in astringency). If you're a customer of a decent HBS locally, drop by with a bottle and try to get them to appraise what's going on.

At this point, it's just guesswork.

Martin

^ Martin has hit it on the head, HUB (Hunter United Brewers) meets every third Friday of the month at Hamilton North bowlo ~1800 start, and Mark would be a pretty reliable authority on anything brew related... So dropping him a bottle of your finest is also an option.

cheers

 

[JDW81]

It sounds like you're over egging the custard so to speak and your hops are giving you way more bitterness than anticipated. Have you tried making a simple beer with a single 60 minute hop addition (hefeweien, coopers sparkling) to see if your described bitterness astringency is still present?

Also, drop one in to MHB or a brew club meeting and see what other reckon.

FWIW when I no chill beers with a stack of late hops I knock off 15 minutes from all boil times and anything under 15 minutes gets a mini boil after the cube has cooled. Works a treat every time.

JD.

 

[acarey]

Righto. Thanks all for your input. Next thing I do is going to be with a single 60 minute addition and see if that sorts my problem out. Assuming it does, I'll then start getting more complex. Thanks heaps guys

 

[carpedaym]

Just to chip in late, my latest was with Nelson and I also perceived it as slightly astringent. It was extract and steeping grains to about 40ibu... we could both be picking up the Nelson style of bitterness in the same way

 

[acarey]

Just to chip in late, my latest was with Nelson and I also perceived it as slightly astringent. It was extract and steeping grains to about 40ibu... we could both be picking up the Nelson style of bitterness in the same way

Thanks carpedaym, but this issue has been happening to me regardless of hop variety. The Nelson ones were just the latest.

Looking back over my notes though, it seems to be an issue with brews containing late hop additions.

Edit: thanks to the guys who posted on this thread for the heads up.

 

[Adr_0]

another way to resolve this to get your hop times bang on:
http://www.theaquariumshop.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=3961&name=Aqua%20Zonic%20Evo%20Submersible%20Water%20Pump%20%205%20-%20(3000%20lph)
+
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=717 or
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/search/7CHILLER+BR+PLATE+20 or
+
http://www.bunnings.com.au/maxipail-20l-plastic-pail-with-lid_p4475875
http://www.bunnings.com.au/clamp-hose-fit-sontax-12-22mm-butterfly-screw-hsb022_p3100015
+
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4378

Half fill your bucket with water + StarSan and backflush, then hook up properly and chuck in ice, then dissolve PBW and back flush again.

 

[carpedaym]

Thanks carpedaym, but this issue has been happening to me regardless of hop variety.

Ahh well, just a thought.

I recently did a test boil to see if my stovetop could handle full volume. For shits and giggles I jotted down some temperatures as the 20-odd L of water cooled. 3 hours after K/O it was still sitting at 80c. Think of the isomerisation!

I'll be making use of the argon method or similar for my late hop additions once I get brewing again.

 

[Logman]

Ha ha, that's funny, I've got a post written up suggesting to try the argon method and carpedaym's reply came up, here it was....

You could also do a brew with the argon method - that would tell you a lot. Cut the bittering addition time/amount right back in stage one and do all of the other hops in stage two. If that works you don't necessarily have to do it that way every time, but you'll know it's hops/no chill related.