Tether: END OF - BIAB

[RdeVjun]

Definitely drop a bottle in to MHB or an experienced brewer as soon as you can.

Doing a batch with a single early bittering addition should eliminate the variability that no- chill is renowned for, particularly with high- AA% varieties (nb. I don't see that in your recipe, it must be accounted for, moreso for late additions and no- chill). I would definitely be using an orthodox bittering hops variety such as Magnum, Northern Brewer or Chinook instead of Nelson Sauvin which has a reputation for throwing peculiar characteristics which are not to everyone's liking. And as per the great minds above, use the argon method if you really must have the late hops character.

Finally, and its probably an outside chance, we haven't talked much about your mash yet, is it possible that your thermometer isn't correct? If it is reading higher than actual temperature, then your mash temperature will be too low and result in some dryness, while you're already mashing low-ish (65C) to begin with, so perhaps check that.
Low mashing should tend towards a drier beer with higher fermentability, if the bitterness isn't balanced accordingly then this could be the reason you're getting an over- bittered or astringent sensation, particularly with low crystal malt levels.
What's the FG been, as expected? Generally speaking, if regularly under say 1.010 then I'd be looking at the mash temperature and or specialty/ crystal grain additions where appropriate. The first thing I would do is pop your thermometer in some boiling water and you should get an idea straight away (the sample water must be boiling, i.e. not just hot water from a boiled kettle).

 

[slcmorro]

Cover and wait 30 minutes

Are you covering your urn while you're boiling the wort?

 

[acarey]

Are you covering your urn while you're boiling the wort?

nope

 

[argon]

Tannins normaly come out at around 88*c.

Yeah I would check your thermometer. You'd be surprised how far out it may be. Get yourself a good mercury or preferably a spirit thermometer to check against. Your assumed mash may be way out.

 

[acarey]

Definitely drop a bottle in to MHB or an experienced brewer as soon as you can.

Doing a batch with a single early bittering addition should eliminate the variability that no- chill is renowned for, particularly with high- AA% varieties (nb. I don't see that in your recipe, it must be accounted for, moreso for late additions and no- chill). I would definitely be using an orthodox bittering hops variety such as Magnum, Northern Brewer or Chinook instead of Nelson Sauvin which has a reputation for throwing peculiar characteristics which are not to everyone's liking. And as per the great minds above, use the argon method if you really must have the late hops character.

Finally, and its probably an outside chance, we haven't talked much about your mash yet, is it possible that your thermometer isn't correct? If it is reading higher than actual temperature, then your mash temperature will be too low and result in some dryness, while you're already mashing low-ish (65C) to begin with, so perhaps check that.
Low mashing should tend towards a drier beer with higher fermentability, if the bitterness isn't balanced accordingly then this could be the reason you're getting an over- bittered or astringent sensation, particularly with low crystal malt levels.
What's the FG been, as expected? Generally speaking, if regularly under say 1.010 then I'd be looking at the mash temperature and or specialty/ crystal grain additions where appropriate. The first thing I would do is pop your thermometer in some boiling water and you should get an idea straight away (the sample water must be boiling, i.e. not just hot water from a boiled kettle).

Yeah, thermometer is spot on.

FG is always as expected. I will look at adding speciality malts to balance the bitterness.

My intent with these was to have a dry beer with nice fruitiness kinda like a stone and wood pacific ale (obviously with different hops)

 

[primusbrew]

Are you transferring any of the hop material to the cube? I used to dump the entire contents of the kettle into the cube, hot break, hops and all. Since I stopped doing this, now I only transfer clear wort across, I get a much cleaner bitterness. I feel like the longer the hops sit in the wort the more undesirable flavour a leach out.

Never done a side by side so not sure if this is really happening. Just my 2c

 

[acarey]

Are you transferring any of the hop material to the cube?

I was, but that was one of the things I cut out.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Hi Acarey I'm fairly new to this hobby. I don't post much bc I've nothing to add. In this case I understand your problem. When I started I didn't have any way to cool my wort. So I used to leave it in the 50lt pot with the lid on over nite to cool. This had many problems. One of which was the hoop addition adding excess bitterness. As stated bf wort sitting in a stainless pot wasn't helping (too hot for too long) with the bitterness. Now I use cubes but still do this. Very little hop addition to the wort when on the boil (15-20g@15-10min nd flameout).I run 3 liters through the used grain bill and reserve for the next day or when I'm ready to pitch the yeast. Normally the next day I boil this 3 liters for my 15-10-5-0 minute hop additions. This gives me a opportunity to control the favors derived for the hops. It's a little more work but very simple. Horses for courses but it works for me.

 

[gordo_t]

It sounds like you're over egging the custard so to speak and your hops are giving you way more bitterness than anticipated. Have you tried making a simple beer with a single 60 minute hop addition (hefeweien, coopers sparkling) to see if your described bitterness astringency is still present?

Also, drop one in to MHB or a brew club meeting and see what other reckon.

FWIW when I no chill beers with a stack of late hops I knock off 15 minutes from all boil times and anything under 15 minutes gets a mini boil after the cube has cooled. Works a treat every time.

JD.

What if you use a HOP sock when BIABing?
Because the hops are pretty much separated from the wort when transferred to No Chill container does this mean they can no longer be adding to bittereness?

(I too am getting an over bitter taste with my ales, so interested to find out what the OP's problem ends up being - i'm already adjusting hop times by 20 minutes)

 

[fletcher]

What if you use a HOP sock when BIABing?
Because the hops are pretty much separated from the wort when transferred to No Chill container does this mean they can no longer be adding to bittereness?

(I too am getting an over bitter taste with my ales, so interested to find out what the OP's problem ends up being - i'm already adjusting hop times by 20 minutes)

even with a hop sock, the hop oils contribute to the bitterness if the temp of the wort is above 80 degrees +/-.

with no-chill there is no way to guarantee the exact hop additions and bitterness. i believe that the 15/20 minute adjustment is an educated estimate.

please please someone correct me if i'm wrong though

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

G_T_G
Some higher AA hops (nelson & galaxy) can give a really harsh bitterness. I know from experience with those two particular hops..........
I have been bittering with lower AA hops of late (EKG, Mt Hood) - yes takes more hops but the bitterness is much smoother IMHO ....
Cheers
BBB

 

[1974Alby]

any updates??/how did the single addition brew turn out?....I have experienced over-bittering with late hop additions (Im also a No Chiller)...espsecially when using 20g- 30g late. Now I just add a very small late addition of 5g - 10 g...doesnt look like an impressive amount of hops to add in,.. but the beer turns out tasty enough.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

+1 I add 10/20g of hops to the boil with ten min left on the boil. If I want big hop punch I do a stove top 15-10-5-0 addition. Add this to the fermenter then top up with cubed no chill wort. Done deal.

 

[Goose]

It seems that water quality and mash pH covered here which are common culprits that contribute to astringency, and I am presuming your untreated tapwater has no discernible difference in taste to a control such as a bottle of distilled water.

I am not sure if mentioned above and apologies if I missed it but even a mild bacterial infection or a taint of wild yeast can cause these flavours. It is possible you have a recurring infection somewhere in your process despite your most stringent sanitation efforts. You would be surprised where this evil can lurk and survive, even professional breweries can spend months tracking down the cause.

This is where my money is on...

 

[acarey]

HI All,

Cheers for the replies and interest! I love the AHB community.

Anyways, the brew I did with only late additions worked a treat without the astringency, which I now believe was just 'super bitterness'. I recon that the fact that I whirlpool and settle for an hour after the boil finishes, renders the late timed hop additions as pointless anyway. From what I've read (on this thread and in other places), there is a max out of the amount of bitterness that can be extracted anyway.

Looking back through my notes (should have done earlier) with my one track 'astringency' mindset removed, I can see that all the single addition brews I have done turned out ok. Its just that the majority of my brews have contained multiple hop additions throughout that have had this issue.

......Anyways, I've built myself an immersion chiller and plan to use it for the first time on friday with an imperial IPA



I'll let everyone know how that goes.

Edit: all conclusions that I've come to were due to help provided in this thread. So thanks again!

 

[fletcher]

HI All, Cheers for the replies and interest! I love the AHB community. Anyways, the brew I did with only late additions worked a treat without the astringency, which I now believe was just 'super bitterness'. I recon that the fact that I whirlpool and settle for an hour after the boil finishes, renders the late timed hop additions as pointless anyway. From what I've read (on this thread and in other places), there is a max out of the amount of bitterness that can be extracted anyway. Looking back through my notes (should have done earlier) with my one track 'astringency' mindset removed, I can see that all the single addition brews I have done turned out ok. Its just that the majority of my brews have contained multiple hop additions throughout that have had this issue. ......Anyways, I've built myself an immersion chiller and plan to use it for the first time on friday with an imperial IPA

09-01-2014 1-39-46 PM.jpg I'll let everyone know how that goes. Edit: all conclusions that I've come to were due to help provided in this thread. So thanks again!

well done mate. good to see you sorted it out. i've seen the 15 minute thing apply on here for no-chilling and i also bought a chiller which i've used now to good success. good cos then you know the IBU and aren't guessing.

 

[DAC]

well done mate. good to see you sorted it out. i've seen the 15 minute thing apply on here for no-chilling and i also bought a chiller which i've used now to good success. good cos then you know the IBU and aren't guessing.

 

[DAC]

Was wondering how many meters of copper u used ? Looks neat.
Thinking if doing one but shorter n wider to suit my pot.

 

[gordo_t]

HI All, Cheers for the replies and interest! I love the AHB community. Anyways, the brew I did with only late additions worked a treat without the astringency, which I now believe was just 'super bitterness'. I recon that the fact that I whirlpool and settle for an hour after the boil finishes, renders the late timed hop additions as pointless anyway. From what I've read (on this thread and in other places), there is a max out of the amount of bitterness that can be extracted anyway. Looking back through my notes (should have done earlier) with my one track 'astringency' mindset removed, I can see that all the single addition brews I have done turned out ok. Its just that the majority of my brews have contained multiple hop additions throughout that have had this issue. ......Anyways, I've built myself an immersion chiller and plan to use it for the first time on friday with an imperial IPA

09-01-2014 1-39-46 PM.jpg I'll let everyone know how that goes. Edit: all conclusions that I've come to were due to help provided in this thread. So thanks again!

When you say "did with only late additions" do you mean the only hops added to brew where in the last 20 minutes or so?
What was your HOP schedule for the latest successful brew?

 

[acarey]

Was wondering how many meters of copper u used ? Looks neat. Thinking if doing one but shorter n wider to suit my pot.

18m of copper bought from Bunnings for $99. I coiled it around a keg and did the right angles with a pipe bender $39 also from bunnings which was carefully repackaged and returned for a refund 30 minutes after purchase h34r: