Swollen cube (un-fermented)

[scooterism]

Compression fitting from Bunnings..

 

[Vini2ton]

Isn't the active ingredient of starsan phosphoric acid? That other stuff is just the foaming surfactant ****. I could be wrong.

 

[Lionman]

Isn't the active ingredient of starsan phosphoric acid? That other stuff is just the foaming surfactant ****. I could be wrong.

I was under the impression that the dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid was the foaming agent which helps the solution stick well to surfaces. The phosphoric acid is what gives it the sanitising properties.

 

[Bribie G]

Yes.

This applies especially to percarbonate, it loses the peroxide fairly rapidly if exposed to humid air. Since percarbonate is mostly a convenient way to store peroxide dry, it is ineffective once this occurs.

Don't know much about "Starsan" since I don't use it but the active ingredient (dodecylbenzene sulphonate) appears to be pretty stable.

Good quality Sodium Percarbonate is produced with specially coated grains, so if you keep it dry in a sealed bucket (I use a 15L "yogurt" pail) it will keep good for months.

 

[GalBrew]

Good quality Sodium Percarbonate is produced with specially coated grains, so if you keep it dry in a sealed bucket (I use a 15L "yogurt" pail) it will keep good for months.

Well the one good thing about perc is it's pretty obvious if it has gone bad as it won't bubble.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Isn't the active ingredient of starsan phosphoric acid? That other stuff is just the foaming surfactant ****. I could be wrong.

I believe it's the other way around, the phosphoric is there to keep the dodecyl benzenesulphonic acid at the correct pH.

According to the "Handbook of Biocide and Preservative Use" p 319, dodecyl benzenesulphonic acid is a microbiocide at pHs between 2 and 3. Since the pKa1 of phosphoric acid is 2.15, the presence of the phosphoric buffers the solution at an appropriate level and makes it tolerant of small amounts of residual high pH cleaners.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Good quality Sodium Percarbonate is produced with specially coated grains, so if you keep it dry in a sealed bucket (I use a 15L "yogurt" pail) it will keep good for months.

The coating is designed so that the sodium percarbonate doesn't react with detergents when it's dry mixed. The coating is generally just a mixture of sodium carbonate, sodium chloride and sodium silicate and does little to prevent the ingress of water vapour, after all if it did it would reduce the effectiveness of the percarbonate.

I agree that it will last if kept in a sealed dry bucket but can't see how that contradicts my statement that it degrades when exposed to humid air.

 

[Rocker1986]

I'd probably chuck the cube out if it was me. I had this happen earlier in the year, although it took weeks to occur. The cube was sitting there fine, not obviously swelling or anything then one morning I came down to find half fermented wort all over the floor and the tap from the cube on the other side of the laundry area. It stank like vinegar. The mess was duly cleaned up and the cube thrown away.

I now have take two of that recipe in the FV ready to be crash chilled tomorrow, so I'll finally be able to see how it was meant to turn out. :lol:

 

[Vini2ton]

Jeez. I've been using phosphoric acid without the other **** in it for quite a few years now as a no-rinse sanitizer. Must be just good luck that I havn't had any infections. Curse Keg-King for their fiendish directions on the bottles of stuff they sell. Back to the drawing board.

 

[Batz]

Jeez. I've been using phosphoric acid without the other **** in it for quite a few years now as a no-rinse sanitizer. Must be just good luck that I havn't had any infections. Curse Keg-King for their fiendish directions on the bottles of stuff they sell. Back to the drawing board.

Phosphoric Acid is a great sanitizer, it is used by most dairy's all over the world. It is the main ingredient in commercially sold brewery sanitizers, I've been using it for years.

http://www.daviesway.com.au/all-products/eliminate.aspx?lv.crumb=73678

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Anything at pH ~2 will have some biocidal activity, so yes phosphoric will be somewhat effective.

IMO using it by itself is simply not good enough for brewery sanitation, yeasts can survive pHs <2 quite happily for periods of many minutes. If you are happy with taking that risk, that's your call.

Most breweries use phosphoric cleaners in bright beer tanks so they don't have to be vented before cleaning. We ALWAYS followed the phosphoric with a PAA sanitiser for reasons outlined above.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

It is the main ingredient in commercially sold brewery sanitizers, I've been using it for years.

http://www.daviesway.com.au/all-products/eliminate.aspx?lv.crumb=73678

Again, the active ingredient in "Eliminate" is glycolic acid and again, glycolic acid is most effective at pHs around 2 to 3 so the phosphoric is there to buffer the solution at this pH.

Just because something's the main ingredient doesn't mean it's the one that does the work: water is the main ingredient in beer.

 

[Frothy1]

water is the main ingredient in beer.

Thats why i'm so hydrated

 

[scooterism]

Really interesting info Lyrebird..