Swiss Lager At 19 Degrees, Is This Possible?

[BjornJ]

Hi all,
is there anyone who has experience with brewing lagers at high temperatures and getting a clean flavor profile?

I have seen a couple of comments about an Australian lager yeast that could go high in temp, as well as hearing something about Swiss Lager yeast that could go high.

Looking in beersmith the highest I can see is the San Francisco Lager yeast which I have used a couple of times.
But it is not recommended to go over 15 to stay clean in flavor.

S-189 is a Swiss Lager dry yeast, Craftbrewer web site says 12 degrees is ideal but I believe Ross was saying it could be used up to 19?


Just asking if anyone has done this successfully as in getting a clean tasting lager.

(would be nice to make lagers at ale speeds)

thanks
Bjorn

 

[Bribie G]

I do it all the time, but be prepared for a wee bit of fruit and not as totally clean as using a Pils style liquid yeast at 11 degrees - also give it a diacetyl rest. I normally use S-189 at around 16 degrees which seems to be sweet spot, and 10 days in primary, 10 days in lagering. I find it's good for highly hopped German Pils type lagers where you've got a few hops to hide behind

 

[Steve]

Hi all,
is there anyone who has experience with brewing lagers at high temperatures and getting a clean flavor profile?

I have seen a couple of comments about an Australian lager yeast that could go high in temp, as well as hearing something about Swiss Lager yeast that could go high.

Looking in beersmith the highest I can see is the San Francisco Lager yeast which I have used a couple of times.
But it is not recommended to go over 15 to stay clean in flavor.

S-189 is a Swiss Lager dry yeast, Craftbrewer web site says 12 degrees is ideal but I believe Ross was saying it could be used up to 19?


Just asking if anyone has done this successfully as in getting a clean tasting lager.

(would be nice to make lagers at ale speeds)

thanks
Bjorn

Yep, can be done at ale temps with good results. Done it a lot.

 

[bignath]

bjorn,

only slightly off topic so i will make it quick mate.

I currently have two batches of a smash nelson sauvin lager fermenting with the swiss lager (s189) at 12 degrees in my fridge.

Both have gone from 1044 to 1016 in five days. This is the first time i have used this yeast so i didn't know what to expect.

I obviously don't know if this is normal for this yeast. If it is normal and you haven't used it before, then it could be good news to get a lager done a little quicker.

I was expecting a two week primary, but it looks like i can go to secondary by start of next week.

cheers

bignath

 

[Duff]

It's a very good, clean and attenuating dry lager yeast. As the prior poster noted, at lager temperatures it chews through the wort pretty quickly. Spend the extra couple of days and you will get the results.

 

[BjornJ]

thanks for the feedback.
Would be fun to try, maybe do a lager at 15-16 degrees and just see how it turns out.

With the few lagers I have made I am struggeling to know how long they need to lager.
My last one was 2 weeks at 0 degrees and a couple of days at -2 and still had not cleared.
Haven't tested it yet but guessing it should have been lagered for longer.
Others seem to do only 10 days and get good results, hmm.

 

[Crunched]

I tried a lager of Ross's the other day that he said was brewed at ale temps - very clean. Apparently he had fermented it for only 10 days as well and then filtered.

 

[Ross]

Yes, all our lagers are currently fermented in a 19c coldroom. 10 days fermenting & then 10 days at 1c before filtering & kegging/bottling
The S-189 doesn't display any fruitiness or diaceytal. Perfect for Euro lagers

We do our Aussis style Ale/lagers with S-23 at 19c - Again no fruitiness at all, but we do get the ester character of the mainstream Aussie beers, so works great for the dreaded XXXX clones.

Cheers Ross

 

[argon]

Yes, all our lagers are currently fermented in a 19c coldroom. 10 days fermenting & then 10 days at 1c before filtering & kegging/bottling
The S-189 doesn't display any fruitiness or diaceytal. Perfect for Euro lagers

We do our Aussis style Ale/lagers with S-23 at 19c - Again no fruitiness at all, but we do get the ester character of the mainstream Aussie beers, so works great for the dreaded XXXX clones.

Cheers Ross

nice to hear... i'll be doing this with the S-189 on the next foray into lagers with a big batch of bohemian pils alongside a regular ale... excellent.

 

[MarkBastard]

If you do ferment these lagers at 19 degrees can you get away with one dry sachet instead of needing two?

 

[Bribie G]

I've been going a bit cooler (16 degrees) but I'll definitely do the 19 degrees next time. In the past I've had great results from a number of yeasts when I have either deliberately or accidentally fermented them way out of the "politically correct" temperature range - for example Wyeast Irish Ale made a killer Irish Red at 24 degrees when I lost my temp control for a couple of days.

 

[jbirbeck]

I've been going a bit cooler (16 degrees) but I'll definitely do the 19 degrees next time. In the past I've had great results from a number of yeasts when I have either deliberately or accidentally fermented them way out of the "politically correct" temperature range - for example Wyeast Irish Ale made a killer Irish Red at 24 degrees when I lost my temp control for a couple of days.

Interesting that...I've just done a FES that is tasting amazing out of the fermenter and I had 1084 running at 25

Keen to have a crack using s-189 at some point and would prefer to run it at a slighter higher temp so I can get more beer brewing at the same time - two fermenters in the fridge, one a lager and one an ale.

 

[felten]

If you do ferment these lagers at 19 degrees can you get away with one dry sachet instead of needing two?

If you're using the pitching rate calc you can set the drop down from lager to hybrid and it might give you a good place to start from.

 

[Steve]

If you do ferment these lagers at 19 degrees can you get away with one dry sachet instead of needing two?

i only ever used one

 

[Ross]

If you do ferment these lagers at 19 degrees can you get away with one dry sachet instead of needing two?

Absolutely - We are using 1 twin pack (rehydrated in warm water prior to pitching) for 50L. .

cheers Ross

 

[Nick JD]

I dumped fresh wort onto a 34/70 yeast cake at the beginning of the week and the wort was 20C (yeast cake was also) and the whole thing exploded out the gladwrap and was halfway to FG in about 24 hours :huh: . Luckily it's super hopped with loads of late American hops - so any esters are probably appreciated.

I can't detect any fusels though. Does anyone know if a lager fermenting 7C above recommended is the same as an ale 7C above making fusels? Or is the only reason we brew lagers cooler to reduce esters only?

 

[MarkBastard]

Cheers guys, there's another bonus then.

That makes lagers in line with ales from a cost and ease point of view because I usually fermenter ales for 10 days and cold crash for 10 days anyway.

Which means I'll be doing more lagers.

 

[Ross]

If in any doubt mark, just head down to the brewery for a tasting....


cheers ross

 

[Paul H]

Was there an hour ago, went with the intention of not succumbing to Ross's tasters but was very impressed particulalry with the czech pils they had on tap again S189 at 19C.

Cheers

Paul

 

[earle]

Interesting that...I've just done a FES that is tasting amazing out of the fermenter and I had 1084 running at 25

Keen to have a crack using s-189 at some point and would prefer to run it at a slighter higher temp so I can get more beer brewing at the same time - two fermenters in the fridge, one a lager and one an ale.

Have used s-189 at lager temps but reckon this is great. As with a couple of others posters it means I can do ales and lagers concurrently. Can fit 2+ fermenters in the fridge but the brews usually overlap in timing, waiting for an empty fridge to change the temp and switch to lagers is a PITA when you're trying to keep the brewing turning over.