Sugar wash - flavouring

[damoninja]

Hi guys,

I'm doing a wash to make some liquers for my non beer/cider drinking friends over Christmas.
I've got a 10L wash going with 2.9kg sugar, OG about 1.120 using triple distilled turbo, liquid carbon and nutrient. It's blooping away nicely. The yeast used should yield approximately 15% alcohol leaving some sugar behind as desired for sweetness.

I've got 3 of those little essence bottles to make a few different flavours, but they're so damn expensive at near $10 a pop. I bought 1 chocolate, blue curacao and a hazlenut.

I'm planning on making a coffee syrup to flavour another one (pretty easy but I wanted to know if anyone has any other suggestions of how to make cheap flavouring strong enough to go into a litre of sugar wash?

Any ideas welcome!

Cheers!

Edit: As discussed with bradsbrew, I'm not distilling... Just doing the first part in the spirit making process but NOT performing distillation.

 

[Yob]

Not allowed to discuss spirits here man.. Forum rules

 

[bradsbrew]

OP has stated he is not distilling, just fermenting water and sugar then adding flavour. Sounds horrible to me but hey, each to their own.

Thread reopened.

Cheers

 

[damoninja]

OP has stated he is not distilling, just fermenting water and sugar then adding flavour. Sounds horrible to me but hey, each to their own.

Thread reopened.

Cheers

It's how loads of people make liqueurs! The yeast is designed to leave no flavour behind at all... It more or less makes alcoholic water.

And no, there's absolutely no distilling going on here... I don't fancy going blind or dead.

 

[Bribie G]

I used to make something similar for ghetto ginger beer. A really good quality ginger cordial such as Buderim from the supermarket hits the spot for anyone who likes a Stones type drink.

Edit: colour it up with some natural green or yellow and serve with some mint leaves in a tall glass with a cocktail umbrella and lots of crushed ice. Damn, could go one right now :icon_drool2:

 

[QldKev]

I think you will be pushing it to get a decent sugar wash from a turbo yeast. They are designed for a quick ferment and are known to be nasty for off-flavours. I think you would be better off with a decent distillers yeast such as SafSpirit, even Lowans bakers yeast (from Coles and Woolies) would produce a better product.

But to answer your question, I would look at a caramel base. I would invert some brown sugar using some acid over heat. Have a look at AndrewQld's historic brewing blogs on here, he has one about inverting sugar. Then you could soak a few pieces of char'd american/french oak in it. To char the wood just wrap it in ailfoil and throw it in the oven at 200c for approx 2hrs.

Also check out the coffee flavorings, there are plenty of different flavors that may work.

I should add I have never tried to do what you are looking at, and having smelt a sugar wash don't think it would be the best.

 

[damoninja]

I used to make something similar for ghetto ginger beer. A really good quality ginger cordial such as Buderim from the supermarket hits the spot for anyone who likes a Stones type drink.

Edit: colour it up with some natural green or yellow and serve with some mint leaves in a tall glass with a cocktail umbrella and lots of crushed ice. Damn, could go one right now :icon_drool2:

Interesting, I don't really want to drop the alcohol % but I guess the cordials will only be 1 part cordial per 8 parts "water" or otherwise? Might be onto something.

I didn't even thing of syrups

 

[Bribie G]

OP is using carbon, might get rid of the skank flavours.

 

[Glot]

Without really knowing but just a thought... Perhaps food flavourings from the super market such as peppermint etc.

 

[damoninja]

I think you will be pushing it to get a decent sugar wash from a turbo yeast. They are designed for a quick ferment and are known to be nasty for off-flavours. I think you would be better off with a decent distillers yeast such as SafSpirit, even Lowans bakers yeast (from Coles and Woolies) would produce a better product.

But to answer your question, I would look at a caramel base. I would invert some brown sugar using some acid over heat. Have a look at AndrewQld's historic brewing blogs on here, he has one about inverting sugar. Then you could soak a few pieces of char'd american/french oak in it. To char the wood just wrap it in ailfoil and throw it in the over at 200c for approx 2hrs.

Also check out the coffee flavorings, there are plenty of different flavors that may work.

I should add I have never tried to do what you are looking at, and having smelt a sugar wash don't think it would be the

Maybe in a beer? The actual yeast strain is apparently a wine yeast but packed as a turbo yeast due to the nutrients it has with it.

But I've been led to understand that it's all dependent on the combination of nutrients / fermentables that the yeast can get its hands on to. Other than simple sugars, it came with a nutrient pack with sulphites and other crap that it wants.

While it's fermenting it just smells like nothing, bit of sting from the CO2 on the nose but nothing to really smell.



I'll taste it before I add any flavours and report back.

 

[damoninja]

OP is using carbon, might get rid of the skank flavours.

There's a carbon and 2 sets of fining agents to clear it up after it's done, maybe it does this too.

 

[toncils]

I'd bet most of those skanky flavours in spirit washes are just due to slack sanitation- who bothers to make a flawless wash if it's going to be stilled?

Treat your sugar wash as you would a beer; boil it for about 15 (though you might caramalise it a bit), pitch healthy yeast (perhaps champagne yeast?), sanitise your tubs, ferment below 20c, etc.

 

[Bribie G]

I read that the brewer at Doom Bar in the UK makes a "liqueur" beer by taking home a batch of his ale wort and fermenting it with turbo yeast, and hitting it with sugar till it reaches about port wine strength. Well regarded by dinner party guests.

 

[HBHB]

So essentially, you're virtually making a toilet wine. If you put that wash through a lab / photospectometry etc, you wouldn't drink it. While the TD Turbo is amazingly clean by comparison to pretty much anything else out there in the same class, it's not designed to make something that's consumed before some form of distillation .

My advice would be to leave this stuff to those who don't care for the finer points of what they put into the relatively susceptible human body. The whole process of distillation is designed to not only concentrate ethanol, but to leave behind the rest of the garbage that would otherwise see the countries overburdened Accident and Emergency Departments flooded with the mis-informed and carefree who try to save a buck.

Turbo carbon and the chitosan 2 part finings will ensure a lot of crap never makes it to a boiler, but it isn't going to make any difference to the outcome of drinking this stuff.

As i said - "Advice" not trying to read the riot act and not advising on "spiritual matters".

Martin

 

[damoninja]

So essentially, you're virtually making a toilet wine. If you put that wash through a lab / photospectometry etc, you wouldn't drink it. While the TD Turbo is amazingly clean by comparison to pretty much anything else out there in the same class, it's not designed to make something that's consumed before some form of distillation .

My advice would be to leave this stuff to those who don't care for the finer points of what they put into the relatively susceptible human body. The whole process of distillation is designed to not only concentrate ethanol, but to leave behind the rest of the garbage that would otherwise see the countries overburdened Accident and Emergency Departments flooded with the mis-informed and carefree who try to save a buck.

Turbo carbon and the chitosan 2 part finings will ensure a lot of crap never makes it to a boiler, but it isn't going to make any difference to the outcome of drinking this stuff.

As i said - "Advice" not trying to read the riot act and not advising on "spiritual matters".

Martin

Are you referring to the methanol that gets produced? Which is actually evaporated before ethanol? (better not get into much more detail, since we're starting to talk about distilling...............)

It's going to be 15%, what's the risk in drinking this vs a 15% wine?

 

[poppa joe]

YUUUUCCCKKK>>>>

 

[HBHB]

1st up, Not saying it's going to kill you or send you blind.

We're not discussing distillation. It's a valid discussion on a sugar wash or "low wine". There's plenty of guys out there that could more adequately discuss the entire gammut of chemistry involved.

TD Turbo actually doesn't form sufficient Methanol for it to be a major issue, though a tiny bit is formed - indeed less than most wines and less than some beer. Other turbo's can, however form significant amounts. (There's one brand being snuck into the country by fools that contains urea as a nutrient, which in turn forms toluene in the wash. - want liver cancer soon, just have some of that)

But there's a not insignifiant amount of acetone and a bunch of other fusels.

The gastrointestinal tract doesn't tend to cope well with washes and nausea is commonplace, along with gut aches, cramping and diarrhoea in a fair number of people. Histamine responses are actually pretty common from drinking these mixes and that's what causes most of the issues, alarm and thus hospital visits.

Tends to lead to fairly severe hangovers as well. Probably due to high levels of acetaldehyde. Also, if anyone it's intended for has a shellfish allergy, then you can rule them out due to the chitosan. (Have seen 1 case of this - not pretty)

Hope this puts some perspective on it.

Martin

 

[damoninja]

So do the guys from Brewcraft SA have any reps on this site? Since they sold me the stuff and their guy told me this is going to produce something that's fine and safe to drink without running it through a still.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Get a better yeast than turbo and brew it low and slow.

Are you going to charcoal filter it ?

 

[toncils]

So do the guys from Brewcraft SA have any reps on this site? Since they sold me the stuff and their guy told me this is going to produce something that's fine and safe to drink without running it through a still.

I worked in a retail place, and am very very far from being a chemist. The guy in Brewcraft was doing his job, to the best of his knowledge, but at the end of the day he's just there to exchange the product you want for moneys.

Still sounds like this debate can be cleared up with a champagne yeast.