Style Of The Week 11/10/06 - Saison

[kabooby]

Looks good to me. What yeast were you going to use?

I got pinned for being too sweet in the states aswell, beer finished @1002. To be fair to the judges, I had added some cane sugar during the ferment that sent the ferment out of control. As a result I found the beer to be too phenolic and it did have a perceived sweetness. Beer didn't score bad but was considered to be "not dry enough for style"

I have had much better results adding sugar to the end of the boil. Easier to control the fermentation. If I try adding sugar to the fermenter again I will do it in smaller amounts over a few days.

Kabooby

 

[glennheinzel]

Looks good to me. What yeast were you going to use?

I got pinned for being too sweet in the states aswell, beer finished @1002. To be fair to the judges, I had added some cane sugar during the ferment that sent the ferment out of control. As a result I found the beer to be too phenolic and it did have a perceived sweetness. Beer didn't score bad but was considered to be "not dry enough for style"

I have had much better results adding sugar to the end of the boil. Easier to control the fermentation. If I try adding sugar to the fermenter again I will do it in smaller amounts over a few days.

Kabooby

Cool. Hopefully I'll get a bit of tartness from the wheat, a touch of spiceyness from the rye and some additional mouthfeel from the oats. (not sure if I've got enough of each to really notice).

I'll be using Wyeast 3726 PC Farmhouse Ale "This strain produces complex esters balanced with earthy/spicy notes. Slightly tart and dry with a peppery finish. A perfect strain for farmhouse ales and saisons". I've got an old smack pack so I'll step it up before use.

Cheers,

Rukh.

 

[kabooby]

With over 10% of each I think you have enough. I used 5% of oats in my last saison and I think I will up it a bit more for the next batch. IMO a nice silky mouthfeel suits this style perfect.

Let us know how the yeast goes.

Kabooby

 

[Effect]

I threw down a saison the other day...

3.89 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.0 %
0.43 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
40.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
40.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (20 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711-PC) Yeast-Ale


I've got a new mill and set the efficiency to 80% (I was usually getting 70%) but I got 85%, so it turned out around 1.055. Throw the 3711 yeast on top and its probably going to turn out about 6.5%...it sure is a feisty yeast. When I smacked the packet it was like it just inflated in my hands and then punched me in the face...very aggresive yeast to say the least

I chucked the 20g of saaz in for aroma, only 20g that is, didn't want a strong hop aroma, hopfully the yeast will provide most of that. This beer is a trial for the sa christmas case swap, if it is good, I will try and brew a lower alcohol version.

Cheers
Phil

Had this on tap a week or so ago and it got smashed hardcore...didn't last long at all and was probably one of the best beers I have brewed...I'm more than happy to put it in the sa case swap, but have lowered it down to about 5% alcohol as 6.5 was a tad too much.

Cheers
Phil

 

[A3k]

Had this on tap a week or so ago and it got smashed hardcore...didn't last long at all and was probably one of the best beers I have brewed...I'm more than happy to put it in the sa case swap, but have lowered it down to about 5% alcohol as 6.5 was a tad too much.

Cheers
Phil

Hi Phil,
how did the hoppiness work out on this yours? I've just brewed a Saison and am really stoked with it. i ended up with 7.5%. i'm thinking about making another Saison at about 5%. I might make something along the lines of what you've done.

Here's my recipe (pretty much Jamil's Recipe from Brewing Classic Styles). I still can't get over the flavour and perceived sweetness of this beer for a 1002 FG beer.

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.76 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 80.81 %
0.34 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
0.34 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
64.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (60 min)Hops 25.4 IBU
22.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.45 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 7.64 %
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast #3711) Yeast-Ale

Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.002 SG Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.57 %

Cheers,
Al

 

[Effect]

Hi Phil,
how did the hoppiness work out on this yours? I've just brewed a Saison and am really stoked with it. i ended up with 7.5%. i'm thinking about making another Saison at about 5%. I might make something along the lines of what you've done.

Here's my recipe (pretty much Jamil's Recipe from Brewing Classic Styles). I still can't get over the flavour and perceived sweetness of this beer for a 1002 FG beer.

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.76 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 80.81 %
0.34 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
0.34 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
64.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (60 min)Hops 25.4 IBU
22.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.45 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 7.64 %
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast #3711) Yeast-Ale

Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.002 SG Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.57 %

Cheers,
Al

I felt that it was spot on. I think if I did it again, for me that is, I would flavour with the styrian alone or with the saaz. Kept it the same for the case swap but just lower alcohol. It's strange that with such a low fg it still has quite a bit of body...

Cheers
Phil

 

[luckyeatwell]

Put together my first Saison on Sunday.


Summer 09 Saison.
1.8Kg German Pils
1Kg JW Pale Malt
0.25Kg JW Wheat Malt
0.15Kg Simpsons Aereomatic (80EBC)
0.15Kg Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
25g Amarillo, 60 Minutes
25g Saaz, 15 Minutes
20g Styrian Goldings, 0 Minutes

WY_3711

At the end of the day we had in the fermenter 25L @ OG 1037, around 27IBU.

It's started bubbling over night and should start to climb in temp today.

Given the attenuation that others on AHB have been reporting on this strain of yeast, I'm hoping for a FG in the 1000 to 1002 range, and an ABV around 5% after priming. I'm looking forward to this being the first of a few great summer beers.

 

[Stuster]

0.15Kg Simpsons Aereomatic (80EBC)

What's this malt? :huh:

Otherwise looks a nice recipe. Interested to see how the Amarillo for bittering works.

 

[luckyeatwell]

Aereomatic is a Simpsons specialty malt, Craftbrewer is selling it at the moment, as are others i'm sure. Maybe somehow equivalent / similar to an amber malt ?

It's the first chance I've had to try it (and the Golden Naked Oats).


I like the stonefruit, apricot that Amarillo sometimes shows off and thought it might suit the style of beer. Adding Amarillo for bittering is my attempt to try add the vaugest hint of those flavours in there.

 

[Mr.Moonshine]

Was thinking of putting down a witbier for christmas (thanks to the heat and my lack of an availible fridge meaning I can't make an IPA or something of the sort), but this thread has convinced me that I'm having saison this christmas!
Recipe I knocked up just then (Partial mash) is;

1 x coopers lager kit
1.15kg powells ale malt
1.00kg JW wheat malt
0.50kg JW vienna
0.25kg JW munich

40g EKG @ 60min
30g Saaz @ 30 min

Wyeast 3724 (Belgian saison)

Beersmith gives me an OG of 1.058, and IBU of 34.9 (Which takes into account the bitterness of the coopers lager kit).

Is there anything missing/needing to be added to this? I was considering pitching the smack pack into the wort without a starter, but might make a 1-2l starter just to be sure (only if it's neccessary though). Given the attenuation of these yeasts, is it valid to mash low or should I aim a bit higher?

Cheers,

Mr.Moonshine

 

[kabooby]

I would recommend making a starter, just increases your chances of a good ferment. I would mash lower about 65 if you are using a can of extract. I think cans can have a bit of unfermentable sugars to try and create body.

Kabooby

 

[Pumpy]

Do you have to do a 50C protein rest with a Saison ?


Pumpy

 

[Stuster]

Do you have to do a 50C protein rest with a Saison?

No.

Easy. Ask me another. :icon_cheers:



luckyeatwell, that sounds like a nice idea with the Amarillo. Might be nice as a First Wort Hop addition. Hmm.

 

[kabooby]

I have been reading through my farmhouse ales book and decided I am going to make an Old style saison. Going to ferment with WLP566 and then add some brett and lacto to sour and give it some more character. A sour refreshing saison for summer :icon_drool2:

40l batch

7.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 82.35 %
0.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
0.20 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 2.35 %
40.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (60 min) Hops 17.5 IBU
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (30 min) Hops 10.1 IBU
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.30 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 3.53 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Saison II Ale (White Labs #WLP566) Yeast-Ale

Kabooby

 

[Stuster]

That sounds delicious, Grant. I wonder if the brett will have worked that quickly though. Might be best for late summer. Does inspire me though. :icon_drool2:

 

[kabooby]

That sounds delicious, Grant. I wonder if the brett will have worked that quickly though. Might be best for late summer. Does inspire me though. :icon_drool2:

The lacto will be pretty quick taking care of the sourness. But hoping the brett may come in for late summer.

Kabooby

 

[Quintrex]

I have been reading through my farmhouse ales book and decided I am going to make an Old style saison. Going to ferment with WLP566 and then add some brett and lacto to sour and give it some more character. A sour refreshing saison for summer :icon_drool2:

That does sound good, I might have to have a crack at something similar. How much sourness does the lacto add? You'd add that at the start right? what strain of brett are you thinking?

Sorry for all the questions

Nice work

Q

 

[kabooby]

I have a just pitched a Alt/ lacto starter into my experimental Berliner Dunkelweiss. Into 500ml starter went 1 vial Lacto and 1 active slant of an alt yeast. Steeped up the starter to about 2l. The sourness was there after a few days. I poured the clear starter wort out of my flask into a glass before pitching and it tasted great. A very present sourness that was not over the top. This gave me the idea to pitch some into a saison. I just think adding the sourness to a saison will make it so much more refreshing. Probally bordering on a gueze in a way. I will ferment the saison with a saison yeast and some of the lacto culture. As far as brett goes I was thinking both the brett L and Brett C.

I just can't get enough of my sour beers atm.

Kabooby

 

[Quintrex]

I have a just pitched a Alt/ lacto starter into my experimental Berliner Dunkelweiss. Into 500ml starter went 1 vial Lacto and 1 active slant of an alt yeast. Steeped up the starter to about 2l. The sourness was there after a few days. I poured the clear starter wort out of my flask into a glass before pitching and it tasted great. A very present sourness that was not over the top. This gave me the idea to pitch some into a saison. I just think adding the sourness to a saison will make it so much more refreshing. Probally bordering on a gueze in a way. I will ferment the saison with a saison yeast and some of the lacto culture. As far as brett goes I was thinking both the brett L and Brett C.

I just can't get enough of my sour beers atm.

Kabooby

Ah thats cool.
I was thinking of using brett C. however I've probably been using it for just about everything 'special' i brew lately so I was thinking of mixing it up and using brett L. myself, I just wasn't sure how the flavours would meld with the saison, but maybe I'll just suck it and see.

I'd be more than happy if it ended up like a gueze, the lacto sounds like the go, pedio scares me

Cheers
Q

 

[Tony]

Sure looking good Tony, let me know how it turns out

Kegged it on saturday arvo, should be ready to turn down the gas and pour a glass with tonight.

It spent almost 3 months in primary. It was done in 4 weeks but it's been waiting for the kegorator to get going as i wanted to put it on tap.

When i kegged it, it was smooth, with a clean roast character, some sweet to ballance it, dry and a bit tart too.

Fingers crossed its not over carbed. first time i have used my 23 liter corny keg.

Im planning a 4% pale verson now that its heated up. It can just run its course on the floor in the 32 deg garage.

CHeers