Style Of The Week 11/10/06 - Saison

[warrenlw63]

Ended up using the farmhouse yeast 3726 (mostly due to hangover), and was that impressed I made 2 more batches on slurry with each getting a bit more spice and alcohol. Kept the temp down to 20 C + it had done the deed in 8 days.

+1 for 3726 Lots of interesting (but subtle) fruity flavours. Makes for a far quicker grain to brain saison over the dupont strain. :icon_drool2:

Warren -

 

[winkle]

+1 for 3726 Lots of interesting (but subtle) fruity flavours. Makes for a far quicker grain to brain saison over the dupont strain. :icon_drool2:

Warren -

This, of course, is extremely important.

 

[Jye]

Winkle and Warren, I just picked up a packed of 3726 so what sort of fermentation schedule did you guys use? Starting and finishing temps? Did you make any type of starter?

Im looking to pitching it into a very simple 1.045 beer purely to build it up for a 1.100 braggot ^_^

 

[warrenlw63]

Winkle and Warren

:lol: We sound like a couple of Enid Blyton characters like Noddy and Big Ears.

FWIW Jye I pitched mine at 20 degrees and just let the thing have it's way until completion. The bulk of the fermentation temp was around the 26 degree mark. There was a time where it crept up as high as 30 degrees for a day and a bit.

To me the flavour is chock full of lychees with some mango in the background and a bit of spice. Lovely !! :icon_drool2:

Warren -

 

[winkle]

I left mine at around 20 C for the whole ferment, fair bit of fruit, spice and a scented talc finish (in a good way).

 

[kabooby]

I fermented mine with the 3711 French Saison. After 3 days @ 20 I gave my fermentation freezer away and it has been fermenting commando since then. We have had a few warmer days here and it got up to 27C. Finished @ 1002. Glad I didn't add the sugar.

Anyway it is tasting really good. I might put half in a keg and bottle the other half with some Brett

Kabooby

 

[Stuster]

I've just bottled a double batch a couple of days ago split between the French Saison 3711 and the Farmhouse Ale 3726. They both just fermented at ambient, starting at around 22 and getting up to the mid-20s at times. It was only a 1044 wort, the Farmhouse finished at 1004 and the French Saison at 1002. Hard to say when bottling how they'll turn out, but they did both taste funky. :lol: The French Saison was impressively clear, as it has been with the other ones I've done with it. Both finished within a few days but I left them a fewWill post back in a week or so when I have an early taste of them both.

 

[kabooby]

Nice one Stuster

My OG was 1044 also. I was planning on having a nice Saison style easy drinker. I wasn't planning on it going so low. Anyway at least it's nice and dry Saison style

Kabooby

 

[James Squire]

I've got the grain cracked and ready for an early start tomorrow on my first Saison. Recipe as follows, any comments are welcome.

The Silly Saison

20L Batch size

3.0 Kgs Pils malt
0.75 Kgs Wheat malt
0.50 Kgs Light Munich malt
0.10 Kgs Caraaroma

10g POR @60min
60g Styrian Goldings @60min
15g Styrian Goldings @20min
15g Styrian Goldings @10min

31.9 IBU
1.051 OG

Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale

Cheers,

JS

 

[Jye]

Looks good and Ive just kegged a beer fermented with 3726 and preliminary tastings are good, should be ready to drink on the weekend.

FYI I fermented at 18C for the first 24 hrs and then let it rise up to 22 for 3 weeks and ended up with 91% attenuation... this yeast is not lazy like other saison strains.

 

[James Squire]

Wow, great attenuation Jye! I had heard it was an active bugger of a yeast strain. What was your FG if you don't mind me asking?

The fermenting fridge is tied up at the moment so I plan to just let this one run its own course in the Melbourne weather. It looks like low 20's for the next few days and eventually starting to warm up.

Cheers.

 

[Jye]

It went from 1.044 to 1.004. The plan was for a smaller session beer but I ended up with a normal strength beer

Farmhouse Wheat
Belgian Pale Ale


Type: All Grain
Date: 8/12/2008
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Brewer: Jye
Boil Size: 25.41 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: SK Brew Hous
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.70 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 75.0 %
0.65 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 18.1 %

15.00 gm Magnum [13.10%] (60 min) Hops 24.2 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (20 min) Hops 6.0 IBU

0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2.50 gm Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.25 kg Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) Sugar 6.9 %

1 Pkgs Farmhouse Ale (Wyeast Labs #3726) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.044 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.004 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %
Bitterness: 30.2 IBU Calories: 400 cal/l
Est Color: 6.1 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: SK - Double Infusion, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 3.35 kg
Sparge Water: 19.71 L Grain Temperature: 25.0 C
Sparge Temperature: 100.0 C TunTemperature: 25.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Protein Rest Add 5.70 L of water at 61.7 C 55.0 C 20 min
Saccrification Add 4.35 L of water at 81.0 C 65.0 C 60 min

 

[winkle]

I'm currently trying to build a farmhouse starter from the dregs of my last bottle of saison, since I can't source any 3724. Might make this a bit of a twisted take on a saison.
Monsoon Saison
Saison


Type: All Grain
Date: 26/09/08
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 79.68 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 19.92 %
0.02 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 0.40 %
26.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 25.0 IBU
14.00 gm Perle plug (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
14.00 gm Perle plug(Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
0.24 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc

Spice additions - 5 minute boil
2 whole stalks lemon grass (chopped)
1 tsp ginger powder
8gm coriander seeds


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.059 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.75 %
Bitterness: 28.2 IBU Calories: 550 cal/l
Est Color: 5.2 SRM

Debating with myself if I should bung some kafir lime leaves in or leave it as is.

 

[bindi]

Spice additions - 5 minute boil
2 whole stalks lemon grass (chopped)
1 tsp ginger powder
8gm coriander seeds



Debating with myself if I should bung some kafir lime leaves in or leave it as is.
[/quote]


Lemon Grass is YUCK in a beer [been there done that] as is Kafir lime [worked in a wheat only in small amounts once, never again], as for spices you will not need them, BUT you MUST have the yeast, 3724 IMHO.

 

[winkle]

Spice additions - 5 minute boil
2 whole stalks lemon grass (chopped)
1 tsp ginger powder
8gm coriander seeds



Debating with myself if I should bung some kafir lime leaves in or leave it as is.



Lemon Grass is YUCK in a beer [been there done that] as is Kafir lime [worked in a wheat only in small amounts once, never again], as for spices you will not need them, BUT you MUST have the yeast, 3724 IMHO.

Ooops, the 3724 starter was actually the Wyeast 3726 farmhouse strain hopefully it'll be ready by Monday for pitching.
Think I'll take your advice Bindi and ditch the lemon grass, replace with some dried lemon peel and forget the kafir lime leaves. B)

 

[Effect]

I've got a smack pack of the 3711 french saison.

Not too sure on what grain bill or hops to go with this. Any ideas? This would be my first saison ever, and have never tried a commercial one either.

From this thread I am thinking of going a simple 90/10 pale/wheat grain bill. As for hops, I think I read that someone used B saaz. How did that go/ would go? Other than that I am thinking of doing a single bittering addition of styrian goldings. Also want this on the lower end of the scale. so about 1.050 OG and roughly 25 IBU?

Anything blaringly wrong with this?

(Sorry if this doesn't make too much sense - been awake all night because of guests checking in late at the hotel and wankers setting off fire alarms...)

Cheers
Phil

 

[neonmeate]

b saaz could be interesting but you get plenty of nice fruitiness from the yeast anyway so the passionfruit stuff from the B saaz gets a bit much. i did a saison with saaz b and pacific hallertau recently that was a bit overly fruity with the nz hops, although after a few months now that the initial hop aroma has settled down it's very nice now. OTOH every time i use czech saaz i wonder why i bother with any other hops. it is just the best.

the rest of your recipe looks good - although i think pils malt rather than pale - but why not ramp up the bitterness, you're not making a witbier... i like 40 IBUs in a saison. you want a dry and hoppy and spicy beer.

 

[Effect]

b saaz could be interesting but you get plenty of nice fruitiness from the yeast anyway so the passionfruit stuff from the B saaz gets a bit much. i did a saison with saaz b and pacific hallertau recently that was a bit overly fruity with the nz hops, although after a few months now that the initial hop aroma has settled down it's very nice now. OTOH every time i use czech saaz i wonder why i bother with any other hops. it is just the best.

the rest of your recipe looks good - although i think pils malt rather than pale - but why not ramp up the bitterness, you're not making a witbier... i like 40 IBUs in a saison. you want a dry and hoppy and spicy beer.

Thanks for your reply neonmeate.

I will go the pils/wheat 90/10, styrian for bittering and czech saaz for flavour. Still aiming for 1.050 and now a boosted 40 IBU.

Should I trade some of the pils malt for some munich I? Maybe 75/15/10 Pils/Munich/Wheat?

And of course I will be using the French Saison, which seems to be getting some mad reviews on an american home brew forum...absolutely chewing through the wort in only a few days...

 

[neonmeate]

munich is your call, lot of people do add a bit for a saison, nice for a bit of maltiness but i like the saison dupont style all pils malt version. with a quality pils malt like weyermann you get great malt flavour just from the pils on its own. that 3711 will clear out really nicely to let the malt flavour through better than the 3724 will too. expect a crazily low fg with that yeast.... very good for tripels too if you want to harvest the krauesen from this one and reuse the stuff.

 

[kabooby]

I agree with Neonmate. My favourite saison with 3711 was all pilsner.

I just mashed one today and added some flaked oats to try and get that silky mouthfeel. Used the Hallertaur flowers as I have an absolute shirt load of them.

7.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 82.35 %
0.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
0.20 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 2.35 %
40.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (60 min) Hops 17.5 IBU
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (30 min) Hops 10.1 IBU
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.30 kg Cane sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 3.53 %
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale

Kabooby