Style Of The Week 11/10/06 - Saison

[randyrob]

Bottled a saison on the weekend managed to get it down from 1.066 to 1.010 in six weeks.

i was planning on having a few bottled to give to a beer loving mate for his birthday, might just have
to bottle a few without adding sugar and let the last few points create the carbonation, anyone ever done
this (they'll be going into champaign bottles, so nice and thick walls. lets hope no explosions)

Rob.

 

[tipsy_mcstagger]

This is my Silly Saison for xmas, added the dregs of Orval & a Gueze boon so see how it develops. Tasty good flat & warm when I was bottling it.

You going to the brew day at kooks?

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

TDA

Got prime high(ish). Around 8 grams per litre. :beer:

Warren -

Cheers Warren,

I will go with that amount.

C&B
TDA

 

[Stuster]

i was planning on having a few bottled to give to a beer loving mate for his birthday, might just have
to bottle a few without adding sugar and let the last few points create the carbonation, anyone ever done
this (they'll be going into champaign bottles, so nice and thick walls. lets hope no explosions)

Rob.

Be very careful with this, even with champagne bottles. You said it's still at 1016. I'm amazed that it has taken so long, but the Saison yeast seems to sometimes. It also attenuates very, very well, so I would be surprised if it's really done now. If you wanted to bottle a few and then drink them within the near future that'd probably be ok, but I'm not sure I'd bottle the whole batch just yet.

 

[randyrob]

You going to the brew day at kooks?

yeah should be mate :beer:

 

[randyrob]

Be very careful with this, even with champagne bottles. You said it's still at 1016. I'm amazed that it has taken so long, but the Saison yeast seems to sometimes. It also attenuates very, very well, so I would be surprised if it's really done now. If you wanted to bottle a few and then drink them within the near future that'd probably be ok, but I'm not sure I'd bottle the whole batch just yet.

Heya Stuster, thanks for the concern.

i should have spelled it out a bit more i guess. was planning waiting until sometime this weekend
then bottling a couple for him (hopefully it will be around 1010 by then) then just saying to him after a
couple of weeks or so chuck em in the fridge (hopefully this slows down yeasty activity and gives it enough
carbonation)

nothing worse than rocking up empty handed.

 

[warrenlw63]

Heya Stuster, thanks for the concern.

i should have spelled it out a bit more i guess. was planning waiting until sometime this weekend
then bottling a couple for him (hopefully it will be around 1010 by then) then just saying to him after a
couple of weeks or so chuck em in the fridge (hopefully this slows down yeasty activity and gives it enough
carbonation)

nothing worse than rocking up empty handed.

Get the Orval dregs in chaps... The brett will eat the lot. :beer:

Warren -

 

[Trent]

My saison dropped from 1070 to 1004 in 4 weeks, so I would be a little hesitant bottling even at 1010. Mind you, depending on how high you mashed, it could be done by then, I guess.
T.

 

[randyrob]

Mashed @ 66 for 1 1/2 Hours

what temp do you usually mash saison's at?

would be good if it gets nice and low like yours i've never had a batch go below 1010.

Rob.

 

[Stuster]

I did two batches. One was mashed at 64C, came down from 1054 to 1004. The second batch was also 64C and came down from 1053 to 1004. Pretty consistent really in the low 90s attenuation. According to Farmhouse Ales, commercial saison brewers use a step mash, something I am really unlikely to do. Both batches were finished in less than 3 weeks. Of course, neither batch had any crystal, just base malts. What was your grain bill, rob?

 

[randyrob]

I did two batches. One was mashed at 64C, came down from 1054 to 1004. The second batch was also 64C and came down from 1053 to 1004. Pretty consistent really in the low 90s attenuation. According to Farmhouse Ales, commercial saison brewers use a step mash, something I am really unlikely to do. Both batches were finished in less than 3 weeks. Of course, neither batch had any crystal, just base malts. What was your grain bill, rob?

5kg Pils, 1kg Munich, 300g Wheat. E.K.G for bittering & Flavour, Saaz for Aroma, Some Dried Orange Peel, Corriander, Cardamon Pods & Organic Camonmile.

 

[Stuster]

Sounds the goods. What size starter did you use? Was it first gen? How long did the starter ferment for, etc etc?
I know it has a reputation for being a difficult yeast, but it really seemed fine to me. Took longer than a Brit/Am ale of course.

 

[Trent]

RR
I actually used a step mash (infusion style), 62C for 30 mins, and then 67C for 30 mins. Simple grain bill, 6kg pale malt, 1.2kg malted wheat. Used that to see what kind of profile the yeast would give, and didnt use any spices, the yeast was pinched out of Doc's Xmas case offering. Isnt as tart as I want it, though is still fairly young, but has a fair bit of yeast complexity. Quite an enjoyable beer, really.

Stuster
Give the step mash a try, I mashed in at 2L/kg, and then added hot water to hit my 67C, I dont think it would have dropped down that low (from 1070) without the rest at 62. I think the rest at 67 gave it a fair maltiness, so maybe I will just mash at 63C next time for an hour, see if that can get the dryness I am after. I was just happy I hit bot my temp targets! First time for everything I suppose.
All the best
Trent

 

[randyrob]

Sounds the goods. What size starter did you use? Was it first gen? How long did the starter ferment for, etc etc?
I know it has a reputation for being a difficult yeast, but it really seemed fine to me. Took longer than a Brit/Am ale of course.

Heya,

yeah first gen smack pack, starter stepped up to 3L (e.g. 100ml, 500ml, 1L etc)
i stepped it up over the space of a week and then pitched it on the weekend.
when i pitched, it was going wild a real thick krausen within 2 hours.

Rob.

 

[sam]

Yes - Saison Dupont. I've got a batch with recultured Dupont yeast fermenting right - should be interesting to compare with 3724 if the brewer's four strain claims in Farmhouse Ales are correct.

Has anyone tried reculturing from Barking Duck? I suspect it isn't bottle-conditioned but I'm pretty sure they use a combination of 3724 and something more plain (1056?)

Chevalier Saison would be another candidate but I doubt that's available outside of Vic.

Yes it is bottle conditioned! i read it on the matilda bay website somewhere it excapes me now.

would using the 1056 speed up fermentation? i'm not real keen on waiting a month for it to ferment out.

Cheers Rob.

I'm not sure if its changed since they first started brewing Barking Duck, but I think the second culture was something a little more "interesting" than 1056. They might have changed it to make production/fermentation more consistent, which I think was a problem initially. If you can culture from the bottle it would be a good one to try.

 

[randyrob]

Mines been in primary for nearly 5 Weeks! man how long do these things take?

Notes:

23L @ 1058

pitched @ 20*C and let rise to 30ish (now sitting on 36*C with 2 x heater belts)

Starting SG=1058
Week 1 SG=1040
Week 2 SG=1032
Week 3 SG=1022
Week 4 SG=1020
Week 4 1/2 SG=1016

its still bubbling every few seconds!

Rob.

Week 5 SG=1012
Week 6 SG=1010
Week 7 SG=1008

and it's still fermenting.........

 

[randyrob]

Week 5 SG=1012
Week 6 SG=1010
Week 7 SG=1008

and it's still fermenting.........

Well its Week 8 and SG=1008 still but there is still posative pressure i.e. the airlock is still bubbling
the outside temperature is 20* C and the Fermenter is sitting on 36*C could this be causing the posative pressure, i'm hoping it would have finished fermentation by now and it's just releasing the co2 inside the beer? safe to bottle now guys?

Rob.

 

[warrenlw63]

Well its Week 8 and SG=1008 still but there is still posative pressure i.e. the airlock is still bubbling
the outside temperature is 20* C and the Fermenter is sitting on 36*C could this be causing the posative pressure, i'm hoping it would have finished fermentation by now and it's just releasing the co2 inside the beer? safe to bottle now guys?

Rob.

Hey Rob if it's cleared I'd say it's safe to bottle.

Warren -

 

[Stuster]

I'd say if it's been steady for a week, you're fine. Bubbling slowly or positive pressure like that are irrelevant really. Bottle away!

 

[randyrob]

Hey Rob if it's cleared I'd say it's safe to bottle.

Warren -

I'd say if it's been steady for a week, you're fine. Bubbling slowly or positive pressure like that are irrelevant really. Bottle away!

Thanks Guys,

she is sooo clear i was suprised! but i guess what do you expect 8 weeks in primary.

Rob.