Style Of The Week 11/10/06 - Saison

[Effect]

but how do I up the colour with just pilsner malt?

It seems to want to come out at about 3.5 SRM...

 

[Stuster]

That's fine really, Philip. No problem with the colour being pale. Many saisons are pretty pale, though not all. It's a more varied 'style' than the BJCP guidelines suggest, so I'd agree with neonmeate and kabooby that you can make a very tasty beer with mainly pilsner malt and that yeast. Styrians for aroma would be good instead of or as well as Saaz.

In terms of Munich, I've made Saisons with or without and both can be good. It partly depends on what pils malt you are using. What were you going to use?

 

[xomz]

I'm planning on mixing this partial up:

Thomas Coopers Light Malt Extract 1.5kg x 2
Light Dried Malt Extract 500g
Pale Ale Malt 1.3kg

Northern Brewer 16g (60min)
Styrian Goldings 20g (30min)
Styrian Goldings 10g (5min)

Wyeast #3724 Saison

23L batch; Ferment at around 26C-28C

Beersmith says:
OG 1.058
EBC 6.5
IBU 26.5

 

[Tony]

I have been away for 3 weeks with work and left my Saison fermenting at 30 deg c next to the bar.

I envisaged green slime and puss oozing from the airlock (which was completly dry by the way) on my return but was plesantly suprised to find its finnished and tastes fantastic. Spicy, slightly fruity amd dry as dry Some bready malt, balanced with a mild floral spicy hop note and a touch of acid to leave extend the dry finnish.

And thats from the fermenter @ 30 deg

I used dark wheat instead of munich for the dry bready spicy character it has. Also the Bourghul to help dry it out a bit.

Its down to 1.004 from 1.057. Thats 92.5% attenuation and about 7% ABV.

Cant wait to get it in the glass.

I think im gunna brew up a batch of stout with a pils base and use carafa spec II and a touch of chocolate wheat. This can go on the yeast cake.

recipe:



Saison

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 28.00 Wort Size (L): 28.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.82
Anticipated OG: 1.057 Plato: 13.98
Anticipated EBC: 17.3
Anticipated IBU: 28.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 87 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
77.3 4.50 kg. Weyermann Premium Pilsner Germany 1.038 3
10.3 0.60 kg. Weyermann Wheat Dark Germany 1.037 18
6.4 0.38 kg. Bourghul Turkey 1.036 5
3.4 0.20 kg. Special B Belgium 1.035 310
2.6 0.15 kg. Weyermann Acidulated Germany 1.035 5

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
60.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 4.50 23.8 45 min.
20.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 4.1 15 min.
30.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 3.70 0.9 2 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3724 Belgian Saison




Cheers

 

[winkle]

Sounds good Tony, I've got a batch conditioning that used 3711 (gee I miss 3726) it ticked all the boxes and should be the bomb in this current heatwave.

 

[Tony]

I had a go at the farmhouse ale yeast 3726 and didnt split the pack before use.

I regretted it when it got infected.

cheers

 

[winkle]

Next release I'll buy Ross's entire stock of 3726 :lol: . Great yeast, good profile and finishes in a week or so. 3711 took about 9 days and finished as dry as a dead dingos donga. I might send you a bottle from the keg if I get my act together.

 

[Effect]

That's fine really, Philip. No problem with the colour being pale. Many saisons are pretty pale, though not all. It's a more varied 'style' than the BJCP guidelines suggest, so I'd agree with neonmeate and kabooby that you can make a very tasty beer with mainly pilsner malt and that yeast. Styrians for aroma would be good instead of or as well as Saaz.

In terms of Munich, I've made Saisons with or without and both can be good. It partly depends on what pils malt you are using. What were you going to use?

I was hoping to use Weyermann Pilsner. I s'pose that the weyermann pilsner won't need munich to help on the malty side...I more like the colour.

But I am planning to have this in summer (another reason why I want it around 1.050 - not to high in the ABV), and a paler style would probably be more appealing then than it is now.

I am a bit confused as well about when to drink a saison, is it like a wheat beer (better young) or does it benefit (or not deteriate) with extended conditioning? I was hoping to bottle in some champagne bottles at the end of september/ early october and have it ready for christmas.

 

[kabooby]

I was hoping to use Weyermann Pilsner. I s'pose that the weyermann pilsner won't need munich to help on the malty side...I more like the colour.

But I am planning to have this in summer (another reason why I want it around 1.050 - not to high in the ABV), and a paler style would probably be more appealing then than it is now.

I am a bit confused as well about when to drink a saison, is it like a wheat beer (better young) or does it benefit (or not deteriate) with extended conditioning? I was hoping to bottle in some champagne bottles at the end of september/ early october and have it ready for christmas.

I love this style so I drink it whenever I have one on tap. No problems keeping it for a few months or even longer.

Kabooby

 

[kabooby]

7.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 82.35 %
0.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
0.20 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 2.35 %
40.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (60 min) Hops 17.5 IBU
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (30 min) Hops 10.1 IBU
30.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [7.90 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.30 kg Cane sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 3.53 %
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale

Kabooby

Picked up a vial of the WLP566 Belgian Saison 2 today. I already have a starter going with the 3711 so I might do a blend just for the fun of it

Kabooby

 

[neonmeate]

3724 is a strange yeast. even though you'd expect it to be like a wheat and ready to drink as soon as carbed - it's a very slow yeast and i find that they really hit their straps after 4-6 months, even for a 5-6% saison.
expect 6.5% ABV from a 1050 OG!!

 

[Tony]

Im board!

Im racking my Saison tomorrow night so im gunna knock up a Saison Stout to put on the yeast cake.

Recipe.


Saison Stout

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 27.00 Wort Size (L): 27.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.45
Anticipated OG: 1.060 Plato: 14.72
Anticipated EBC: 70.6
Anticipated IBU: 34.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
62.0 4.00 kg. Weyermann Premium Pilsner Germany 1.038 3
15.5 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 1.038 26
7.8 0.50 kg. Weyermann Pale Wheat Germany 1.038 4
4.7 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carabohemien Germany 1.034 200
4.7 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special II Germany 1.036 1100
3.1 0.20 kg. Special B Belgium 1.035 310
2.3 0.15 kg. Weyermann Choc Wheat Germany 1.035 1100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
80.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 30.7 45 min.
12.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 3.70 2.1 15 min.
20.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 3.70 1.4 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3724 Belgian Saison

 

[Stuster]

Hmm, looks good, Tony. I did a dark saison a while ago and it's pretty good and improving with some time in the bottle. I think it's certainly worth a go. That yeast is much better behaved in later generations in my experience.

You've got some interesting malts in there that I haven't used. Have you tried the carabohemian malt before?

 

[winkle]

Im board!

Im racking my Saison tomorrow night so im gunna knock up a Saison Stout to put on the yeast cake.

Recipe.


Saison Stout

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 27.00 Wort Size (L): 27.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.45
Anticipated OG: 1.060 Plato: 14.72
Anticipated EBC: 70.6
Anticipated IBU: 34.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
62.0 4.00 kg. Weyermann Premium Pilsner Germany 1.038 3
15.5 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 1.038 26
7.8 0.50 kg. Weyermann Pale Wheat Germany 1.038 4
4.7 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carabohemien Germany 1.034 200
4.7 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special II Germany 1.036 1100
3.1 0.20 kg. Special B Belgium 1.035 310
2.3 0.15 kg. Weyermann Choc Wheat Germany 1.035 1100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
80.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 30.7 45 min.
12.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 3.70 2.1 15 min.
20.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 3.70 1.4 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3724 Belgian Saison

Sure looking good Tony, let me know how it turns out

 

[Tony]

Ahhhh an astute eye Stu I was going toi see how long it took for someone to see that.

mate..... i just got it yesterday. It tastes kind of like a light caraaroma when chewed. Very malty and intense. Im keen to give a few% a go in an oktoberfest

The mash smells awsome i can tell you that much

Cheers

 

[Effect]

I threw down a saison the other day...

3.89 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.0 %
0.43 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
40.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
40.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (20 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711-PC) Yeast-Ale


I've got a new mill and set the efficiency to 80% (I was usually getting 70%) but I got 85%, so it turned out around 1.055. Throw the 3711 yeast on top and its probably going to turn out about 6.5%...it sure is a feisty yeast. When I smacked the packet it was like it just inflated in my hands and then punched me in the face...very aggresive yeast to say the least

I chucked the 20g of saaz in for aroma, only 20g that is, didn't want a strong hop aroma, hopfully the yeast will provide most of that. This beer is a trial for the sa christmas case swap, if it is good, I will try and brew a lower alcohol version.

Cheers
Phil

 

[neonmeate]

looks damn good phillip. yes that 3711 is ravenous. usually gets 95+% apparent attenuation for me...

 

[D.lycle]

Good morning What is the best way to save the "Tip of the Week" to my computer. I have been saving as a txt. file but then you do not have the follow along pictures included........suggestions? thanks

 

[mika]

Good morning What is the best way to save the "Tip of the Week" to my computer. I have been saving as a txt. file but then you do not have the follow along pictures included........suggestions? thanks

:huh: ?

 

[glennheinzel]

22 litres
Original Gravity: 1.060 (1.048 - 1.065)
Terminal Gravity: 1.008 (1.002 - 1.012)
Color: 5.55 (5.0 - 14.0)
Alcohol: 6.73% (5.0% - 7.0%)
Bitterness: 30.0 (20.0 - 35.0)

Ingredients:
4.8 kg Pilsner Malt
.34 kg Wheat Malt Pale (Organic)
.34 kg Munich TYPE I
.06 kg Caramunich TYPE I
.45 kg Invert Sugar (how good does Lyles syrup taste?!)
.10 kg White Table Sugar (Sucrose)

35 g Hallertau Tradition (5.7%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
21 g Hallertau Tradition (5.7%) - flameout

The recipe above finished at 1.002. It tasted great, although it got knocked at the NSW titles for being too sweet.

I'm tinkering with my next recipe. I want something a bit drier (without the residual sweetness) for summer. I also wanted to use a few different grains, including some oats that I got from late grandma's house (and hence the beer name).

Grandma's Farm Ale
Size: 20.0 L
Efficiency: 70.0%
Attenuation: 94.0%
Original Gravity: 1.049 (1.048 - 1.065)
Terminal Gravity: 1.003 (1.002 - 1.012)
Alcohol: 6.08%
Bitterness: 24.9

Ingredients:
3.5 kg Pilsner Malt
0.5 kg Rye Malt
0.5 kg Oats Flaked
0.5 kg Pale Wheat Malt
25.0 g Styrian Goldings (5.4%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
29.0 g Hallertau Mittelfruh (4.6%) - added during boil, boiled 15.0 min
10.0 g Hallertau Mittelfruh (4.6%) - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
Edit: Looking to use Wyeast Belgian Farmhouse yeast.

What do you think?

 

[kabooby]

Looks good to me. What yeast were you going to use?

I got pinned for being too sweet in the states aswell, beer finished @1002. To be fair to the judges, I had added some cane sugar during the ferment that sent the ferment out of control. As a result I found the beer to be too phenolic and it did have a perceived sweetness. Beer didn't score bad but was considered to be "not dry enough for style"

I have had much better results adding sugar to the end of the boil. Easier to control the fermentation. If I try adding sugar to the fermenter again I will do it in smaller amounts over a few days.

Kabooby

 

[glennheinzel]

Looks good to me. What yeast were you going to use?

I got pinned for being too sweet in the states aswell, beer finished @1002. To be fair to the judges, I had added some cane sugar during the ferment that sent the ferment out of control. As a result I found the beer to be too phenolic and it did have a perceived sweetness. Beer didn't score bad but was considered to be "not dry enough for style"

I have had much better results adding sugar to the end of the boil. Easier to control the fermentation. If I try adding sugar to the fermenter again I will do it in smaller amounts over a few days.

Kabooby

Cool. Hopefully I'll get a bit of tartness from the wheat, a touch of spiceyness from the rye and some additional mouthfeel from the oats. (not sure if I've got enough of each to really notice).

I'll be using Wyeast 3726 PC Farmhouse Ale "This strain produces complex esters balanced with earthy/spicy notes. Slightly tart and dry with a peppery finish. A perfect strain for farmhouse ales and saisons". I've got an old smack pack so I'll step it up before use.

Cheers,

Rukh.

 

[kabooby]

With over 10% of each I think you have enough. I used 5% of oats in my last saison and I think I will up it a bit more for the next batch. IMO a nice silky mouthfeel suits this style perfect.

Let us know how the yeast goes.

Kabooby

 

[Effect]

I threw down a saison the other day...

3.89 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.0 %
0.43 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
40.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
40.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (20 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711-PC) Yeast-Ale


I've got a new mill and set the efficiency to 80% (I was usually getting 70%) but I got 85%, so it turned out around 1.055. Throw the 3711 yeast on top and its probably going to turn out about 6.5%...it sure is a feisty yeast. When I smacked the packet it was like it just inflated in my hands and then punched me in the face...very aggresive yeast to say the least

I chucked the 20g of saaz in for aroma, only 20g that is, didn't want a strong hop aroma, hopfully the yeast will provide most of that. This beer is a trial for the sa christmas case swap, if it is good, I will try and brew a lower alcohol version.

Cheers
Phil

Had this on tap a week or so ago and it got smashed hardcore...didn't last long at all and was probably one of the best beers I have brewed...I'm more than happy to put it in the sa case swap, but have lowered it down to about 5% alcohol as 6.5 was a tad too much.

Cheers
Phil

 

[A3k]

Had this on tap a week or so ago and it got smashed hardcore...didn't last long at all and was probably one of the best beers I have brewed...I'm more than happy to put it in the sa case swap, but have lowered it down to about 5% alcohol as 6.5 was a tad too much.

Cheers
Phil

Hi Phil,
how did the hoppiness work out on this yours? I've just brewed a Saison and am really stoked with it. i ended up with 7.5%. i'm thinking about making another Saison at about 5%. I might make something along the lines of what you've done.

Here's my recipe (pretty much Jamil's Recipe from Brewing Classic Styles). I still can't get over the flavour and perceived sweetness of this beer for a 1002 FG beer.

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.76 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 80.81 %
0.34 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
0.34 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
64.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (60 min)Hops 25.4 IBU
22.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.45 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 7.64 %
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast #3711) Yeast-Ale

Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.002 SG Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.57 %

Cheers,
Al

 

[Effect]

Hi Phil,
how did the hoppiness work out on this yours? I've just brewed a Saison and am really stoked with it. i ended up with 7.5%. i'm thinking about making another Saison at about 5%. I might make something along the lines of what you've done.

Here's my recipe (pretty much Jamil's Recipe from Brewing Classic Styles). I still can't get over the flavour and perceived sweetness of this beer for a 1002 FG beer.

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.76 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 80.81 %
0.34 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
0.34 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.77 %
64.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (60 min)Hops 25.4 IBU
22.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
0.45 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 7.64 %
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast #3711) Yeast-Ale

Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.002 SG Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.57 %

Cheers,
Al

I felt that it was spot on. I think if I did it again, for me that is, I would flavour with the styrian alone or with the saaz. Kept it the same for the case swap but just lower alcohol. It's strange that with such a low fg it still has quite a bit of body...

Cheers
Phil

 

[luckyeatwell]

Put together my first Saison on Sunday.


Summer 09 Saison.
1.8Kg German Pils
1Kg JW Pale Malt
0.25Kg JW Wheat Malt
0.15Kg Simpsons Aereomatic (80EBC)
0.15Kg Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
25g Amarillo, 60 Minutes
25g Saaz, 15 Minutes
20g Styrian Goldings, 0 Minutes

WY_3711

At the end of the day we had in the fermenter 25L @ OG 1037, around 27IBU.

It's started bubbling over night and should start to climb in temp today.

Given the attenuation that others on AHB have been reporting on this strain of yeast, I'm hoping for a FG in the 1000 to 1002 range, and an ABV around 5% after priming. I'm looking forward to this being the first of a few great summer beers.

 

[Stuster]

0.15Kg Simpsons Aereomatic (80EBC)

What's this malt? :huh:

Otherwise looks a nice recipe. Interested to see how the Amarillo for bittering works.

 

[luckyeatwell]

Aereomatic is a Simpsons specialty malt, Craftbrewer is selling it at the moment, as are others i'm sure. Maybe somehow equivalent / similar to an amber malt ?

It's the first chance I've had to try it (and the Golden Naked Oats).


I like the stonefruit, apricot that Amarillo sometimes shows off and thought it might suit the style of beer. Adding Amarillo for bittering is my attempt to try add the vaugest hint of those flavours in there.

 

[Mr.Moonshine]

Was thinking of putting down a witbier for christmas (thanks to the heat and my lack of an availible fridge meaning I can't make an IPA or something of the sort), but this thread has convinced me that I'm having saison this christmas!
Recipe I knocked up just then (Partial mash) is;

1 x coopers lager kit
1.15kg powells ale malt
1.00kg JW wheat malt
0.50kg JW vienna
0.25kg JW munich

40g EKG @ 60min
30g Saaz @ 30 min

Wyeast 3724 (Belgian saison)

Beersmith gives me an OG of 1.058, and IBU of 34.9 (Which takes into account the bitterness of the coopers lager kit).

Is there anything missing/needing to be added to this? I was considering pitching the smack pack into the wort without a starter, but might make a 1-2l starter just to be sure (only if it's neccessary though). Given the attenuation of these yeasts, is it valid to mash low or should I aim a bit higher?

Cheers,

Mr.Moonshine