Strange happenings since going AG

[Eagleburger]

Funny. I have no chilled up untill my last few brews and was never satisfied with hop flavour and or aroma. Tried a number of different strategies. I found my cube additions flavor and aroma would vanish by the time it got to the tap.

 

[Chris7]

Chris, was the beer you bottled the same batch you kegged?
When you say the kegged beer is lacking flavour, is that just the hop (bittering/aroma) or are you also referring to your malt profile as well?
If it is the bittering flavour your lacking, would First Wort Hop additions help?

Hey Joe,

Yep exact same batch. Pretty happy with the malt flavours, just really lacking hop bitterness, aroma and flavour. Just trying one of the bottles from the current batch and it has good bitterness and pretty good flavour and aroma. Possibly just needs more time.
I have never tried a FWH but would be very interested to give it a go. From what I have read FWH wouldn't necessarily be as bitter as a 60min even though it is in for longer. Something to do with the hop oils being extracted at a lower temp or something, I don't quite recall. Anyways how would one calculate the IBUs for FWH?

 

[Tahoose]

If you use brewmate just sleet fwh instead of boil when it comes to the hop section.

 

[Chris7]

Ah ok. Nah I don't use it unfortunately. Not sure which program's are compatible with Mac cause that is all I've got. I have mostly just been using Ian H's spreadsheet for a basic idea. Also have brewers friend on my phone and brew log too.

 

[TheWiggman]

I'm a bit surprised to hear people commenting that hop aroma and flavour disappears for them when cube hopping. For me 60g of Cascade in the cube jumps out at me in the glass. Not an IPA, but flavoursome and enjoyable all the same. It's a bit OT but I can't relate.
Kegs vs bottles is odd. The only difference I've found is slightly more ABV in the bottles with the extra priming sugar but that shouldn't have made a difference when going to AG. Fundamentally it's the same stuff going into each.
Personally I wouldn't be rating brews after one week in the keg, I find typical ales take about 3 weeks to hit their stride. Only thing I can suggest is a possible gas leak, is the hoppiness escaping from this?

 

[Chris7]

Hey, thanks for the input. Yeh I think some of the info in my original post was confused. The whole bottle/keg thing started before I tried cube hopping (but the recent keg that I tried after a week was the cube hopped one) so it's not that at all and I will continue to give cube hopping a go (as I did with this mornings brew). No gas leaks or anything like that and I will obviously try this keg after a few weeks as well but the previous kegs I had over over several different dates. Who knows, as long as it is drinkable I'm not too worried.

 

[Midnight Brew]

Chris, I would suggest you give your beer lines a good soak in hot sodium perc followed by a solid flush with boiling water and then a run through of star san. It could be the lines that need a clean and the reason why your keg to bottle vary in flavour.

For what its worth, mega swill is much more improved when drinking it from clean lines.

 

[hathro]

I think that when folks move from bottling to kegging, they are often comparing bottled beer that has been maturing for weeks/months to a beer that has been kegged for a much shorter period of time; in your case, a week. Just because a beer is carbonated, doesn't mean it is at its prime for drinking.

Most of my kegged beers taste better after a month than a week. The flavours aren't as harsh and they taste more balanced. Bittering is smoother and allows other flavours to come through.

 

[Chris7]

Chris, I would suggest you give your beer lines a good soak in hot sodium perc followed by a solid flush with boiling water and then a run through of star san. It could be the lines that need a clean and the reason why your keg to bottle vary in flavour.

For what its worth, mega swill is much more improved when drinking it from clean lines.

Howdy, I clean my lines very regularly using a similar method. They are probably not even 6 months old Valpar Flexmaster II lines. I do the sodium perc flush/soak and then run through water and then star San. I don't use boiling water though just warm but soak for 10-20mins depending on time.

 

[Chris7]

I think that when folks move from bottling to kegging, they are often comparing bottled beer that has been maturing for weeks/months to a beer that has been kegged for a much shorter period of time; in your case, a week. Just because a beer is carbonated, doesn't mean it is at its prime for drinking.

Most of my kegged beers taste better after a month than a week. The flavours aren't as harsh and they taste more balanced. Bittering is smoother and allows other flavours to come through.

Hey Hathro, cheers for the input. As I said previously, it was just this keg that I tried a week in to ageing and felt a lack of flavour. I have been kegging since pretty much day one but always try and make enough to bottle a few six packs as well. It was just when I went from extract, where my bottled beer tasted not so good but the kegs were decent enough, and now the bottles are good, but the kegs just seem a bit lacking. With this most recent one I'm sure it probably does just need some time so will wait and see. Seems no one else had had similar experiences which is lucky for them! May also be that my palate is not used to enjoying the beer I have bottled haha.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

I remember back in the day HBS used to say 'a day in the keg is a week in the bottle'.

Bottling = pain in the arse.. but to me I think it gives a better, more versatile product. I don't even use tallies.. just 330 mls - sanitising, bottling and the rinsing.. capping.. the repition, oh what a pain in the ass.. but maybe the beer tastes better with a bit more manual labour put into it?

As far as hops - only thing I can think of is perhaps some more hop matter is suspension in a bottle.. and being a smaller unit size than a keg, more hops transfer over.. seems like a simple way to put it.

Not saying I'd never go to kegs and have before, but it kind of ruined part of brewing for me.. so I just stick to my bottles. Don't have to use electricity to keep them cool, rent gas and buy regulators, sanatise extra things or make modifications with silicone and grommets. Once my beers in the bottle, its ready for enjoyment after a week (when its warm) or 2 when its cooler. just as though purchased from the store. Plus you can give your beer to mates and spread the cheer!

 

[Tahoose]

Totally disagree.

One of the best things in life is good quality beer on tap at your house.

Just bottled 3 slabs last week to see me through a summers worth of taking a couple of beers round to a mates... But the rest will be in the kegs. And party's get party keg treatment.

 

[Joel Mcleod]

Hey Joe,

Yep exact same batch. Pretty happy with the malt flavours, just really lacking hop bitterness, aroma and flavour. Just trying one of the bottles from the current batch and it has good bitterness and pretty good flavour and aroma. Possibly just needs more time.
I have never tried a FWH but would be very interested to give it a go. From what I have read FWH wouldn't necessarily be as bitter as a 60min even though it is in for longer. Something to do with the hop oils being extracted at a lower temp or something, I don't quite recall. Anyways how would one calculate the IBUs for FWH?

Hey Chris,
I rekon the Wigman and Midnight are on to it. Keep being clean and patient with the your kegged beer. Kegged beer always seems to taste better after 3-4 weeks under Co2, as opposed to the force carb and start drinking, I usually prescribe to. :chug: (carnt help me self sometimes)
Calculation of IBU with FWH? :blink: I FWH because it's easier, I add to FWH charge and then go mow the lawn or something for 90mins. All other hops go straight into the cube and dry hop. Not saying its the best method, just saying its easier.
I go off the BIABicus spreadsheet on BIABrewer website, to draft my recipes. But at the moment, I'm finding the best way to judge your bitterness is to keep records of additions, quantities, and tastes. once you get through a few cubes it'll get easier to dial in what hop levels you like to what ever beer your making. Use any software you like, treat it as a starting point and start experimenting :beerbang:

 

[Chris7]

Hey Chris,
I rekon the Wigman and Midnight are on to it. Keep being clean and patient with the your kegged beer. Kegged beer always seems to taste better after 3-4 weeks under Co2, as opposed to the force carb and start drinking, I usually prescribe to. :chug: (carnt help me self sometimes)
Calculation of IBU with FWH? :blink: I FWH because it's easier, I add to FWH charge and then go mow the lawn or something for 90mins. All other hops go straight into the cube and dry hop. Not saying its the best method, just saying its easier.
I go off the BIABicus spreadsheet on BIABrewer website, to draft my recipes. But at the moment, I'm finding the best way to judge your bitterness is to keep records of additions, quantities, and tastes. once you get through a few cubes it'll get easier to dial in what hop levels you like to what ever beer your making. Use any software you like, treat it as a starting point and start experimenting :beerbang:

Cheers Joe. Yeh will give it more time and see how it is. I have tried BIABicus but struggled a bit with it but I will certainly give it another crack. I have just started using Brew log on my phone and it is serving it's purpose for the time being. I will definitely give FWH a go on my next brew. I'm not worried about a little bitterness so I shall just experiment with it as you say.