Sprungmonkey
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Just wondering do people use an aeration, stiring (with stir bar) and just swish around when making a starter.
Starter Aeration
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devo
Str8outtaCoburg
I swish the flask around for a constant 2 minutes. Works every time.
BOG
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Not wanting to hijack this thread, and my answer is shake the shit out of it before adding yeast and then nothing, but,
How long do you leave a starter before you say it's ready. I pitched a full Wyeast vile into 1Litre and got nothing after 2 days. threw is out.
Was I wrong ?
BOG
How long do you leave a starter before you say it's ready. I pitched a full Wyeast vile into 1Litre and got nothing after 2 days. threw is out.
Was I wrong ?
BOG
the_fuzz
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Stuster
Big mash up
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How old was the pack? Had you smacked it and had it puffed up? What temp was it at? What yeast was it? Did you smell/taste it or use a hydrometer? You might just have missed the krausen or sometimes there just isn't one. Were there any bubbles evident?
For the OP, stir plate is the best. For those too lazy to get one together (like me), shaking it when you go past works fine.
BOG
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The Yeast was a Burton Ale Yeast. It was one month out of date.
The whole vile to one litre was the recommended pitch rate around here.
No bubbles , no Krausen , nothing.
I assumed it was dead but was very surprised that nothing survived. Pitched on a Thursday morning, threw out Saturday morning and went with Dry Nottingham.
BOG
The whole vile to one litre was the recommended pitch rate around here.
No bubbles , no Krausen , nothing.
I assumed it was dead but was very surprised that nothing survived. Pitched on a Thursday morning, threw out Saturday morning and went with Dry Nottingham.
BOG
matti
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Before stirplate I used to shake the starter.
Now I aerate it prior and leave it on a stirrer.
If yeast was good you may have missed the krausen.
It doesn't take long with starters for the head so subside.
If you allow it to ferment out, say 5 days the starter will be stronger and keep longer.
I swear.
Now I aerate it prior and leave it on a stirrer.
If yeast was good you may have missed the krausen.
It doesn't take long with starters for the head so subside.
If you allow it to ferment out, say 5 days the starter will be stronger and keep longer.
I swear.
kabooby
Hey muscly arms!!!!
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I just use Berri juice bottles. Give them a swirl everytime I walk past. Has worked fine so far. I had some 2nd generation WLP800 that had been in the fridge about 12 months. It took about 24 hours to show signs of life and then off it went. This photo is after 3 days. Earlier today the krausen was about 4cm high.
Kabooby
Kabooby
BOG
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Stuster,
It was a plastic vial of White Labs. (Sorry not Wyeast).
It's was a plastic test tube not a smack pack.
I'm hoping I didn't miss the Krausen I would have expected a pitch rate fit for 23 litres would have reacted with something in a 1 litre bottle.
Anyway it's gone now.
I'll have to ask my HBS if they can run a yeast swap service. Drop one type off , pick one up.
Great idea and would keep me coming back to the HBS. I'm after british ale Yeast.
BOG
It was a plastic vial of White Labs. (Sorry not Wyeast).
It's was a plastic test tube not a smack pack.
I'm hoping I didn't miss the Krausen I would have expected a pitch rate fit for 23 litres would have reacted with something in a 1 litre bottle.
Anyway it's gone now.
I'll have to ask my HBS if they can run a yeast swap service. Drop one type off , pick one up.
Great idea and would keep me coming back to the HBS. I'm after british ale Yeast.
BOG
mika
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For the OP, stir plate is the best. For those too lazy to get one together (like me), shaking it when you go past works fine.
This is with just the alfoil wrapped over the top Stu ?
Used to use a stirplate for my starters, would aerate full term until fermentation had ceased, yeast would drop out after stopping the stirplate and I would pitch the starter. Had been chasing yeast problems for ages, low attenuation and off flavours. Sent off emails to yeast companies and brewers in the States in an effort to get to the bottom of the problem. Had a suggestion that the problem might be that I was pitching 2L of oxidised starter into my wort. Stopped using the stirplate, and bingo good clean beer and good attenuation. Now I use a squirt of oxygen in the starter wort before pitching and another short burst after 6 hours and pitch during high krausen when the yeast is most active.
Stuster
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Well, that's excellent news, Screwtop. A great reason to stick with no stirplate.
Very interesting information though. When I've made a big starter (3-4L for lagers), I think it's probably best to let it ferment out, let the yeast drop out of suspension (in the fridge if possible). Then when you are ready to pitch, pour off (almost all) the starter wort and only pitch the yeast. Might be a good idea for those with stirplates as well, do you think Screwtop?
Very interesting information though. When I've made a big starter (3-4L for lagers), I think it's probably best to let it ferment out, let the yeast drop out of suspension (in the fridge if possible). Then when you are ready to pitch, pour off (almost all) the starter wort and only pitch the yeast. Might be a good idea for those with stirplates as well, do you think Screwtop?
Was having a problems with my stir plated starters firing too slowly, no krausen................. then I realised I hadn't been aerating the starter wort. Sometimes they were OK, prolly related to enough oxygen getting in through the plate action and depending on the yeast strain, sometimes not so good.
Am now ensuring any wort that goes in the starter is aerated (5 minutes of shake). I still go in steps, depending on how much yeast I've got to start with, though never more than 500ml to start with usually, and ending @ 2 litres, timing based on the usual factors, temp, strain, etc.
Lagers, usually into the fridge for a day or two, tip off as much beer as possible and cold pitch. My starters are always done at room temps so for lagers the resulting starter beer is horrible, you wouldn't want two litres of that in a 23 litre batch. I usually end up pitching 300/400 ml. Best lag time I've got is 6 hours for a fast starting strain.
Ales, always taste the starter beer, if it's OK (not oxidised) the lot will go in, if not same treatment as lagers with the yeast sitting outside of the fridge for a while to bring it up to room temps.
My starter vessels are covered with alfoil, my guess is not a lot of oxygen gets in once fermentation has started, i.e. it's mainly CO2 getting out, so therefore the O2 is coming from the pitched wort. No real proof of that one.
Looking at Screwy's post, in all the discussion of stir plates there is very little mentioned about the impact of adding oxydised starters to worts, you would think that for 2 litre + starters it might indeed have an impact on the final beer. Good point to note
Am now ensuring any wort that goes in the starter is aerated (5 minutes of shake). I still go in steps, depending on how much yeast I've got to start with, though never more than 500ml to start with usually, and ending @ 2 litres, timing based on the usual factors, temp, strain, etc.
Lagers, usually into the fridge for a day or two, tip off as much beer as possible and cold pitch. My starters are always done at room temps so for lagers the resulting starter beer is horrible, you wouldn't want two litres of that in a 23 litre batch. I usually end up pitching 300/400 ml. Best lag time I've got is 6 hours for a fast starting strain.
Ales, always taste the starter beer, if it's OK (not oxidised) the lot will go in, if not same treatment as lagers with the yeast sitting outside of the fridge for a while to bring it up to room temps.
My starter vessels are covered with alfoil, my guess is not a lot of oxygen gets in once fermentation has started, i.e. it's mainly CO2 getting out, so therefore the O2 is coming from the pitched wort. No real proof of that one.
Looking at Screwy's post, in all the discussion of stir plates there is very little mentioned about the impact of adding oxydised starters to worts, you would think that for 2 litre + starters it might indeed have an impact on the final beer. Good point to note
Well, that's excellent news, Screwtop. A great reason to stick with no stirplate.
Very interesting information though. When I've made a big starter (3-4L for lagers), I think it's probably best to let it ferment out, let the yeast drop out of suspension (in the fridge if possible). Then when you are ready to pitch, pour off (almost all) the starter wort and only pitch the yeast. Might be a good idea for those with stirplates as well, do you think Screwtop?
I think from memory there was a topic floating around a few years ago re stir plate starters for lagers. Have done the drop out in the fridge thing in the past too Stuster, poured off most of the wort but still had off flavours, now I oxy the starter and pitch at high krausen. Today I'll take some wort making out and crash chill it for my starter, able to crash chill it and get the starter going in the time it takes the wort to drop to pitching temp for a lager, still want it in reproduction phase.
matti
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Stu.
It ok to pitch the starter either way.
High krausen or fermented out.
You'll have quicker action with the former and less lag time.
As for aerating the starter.
Screwtop is right on the money.
With no control of how much oxygen you put in using stir-plate it is better to "aerate just enough"
I leave the stirrer on for a maximum 6 hours.
aerate the wort as you pitch rather then oxidise the starter.
I cannot remember where the thread is and what the recommended time was.
Time- amount oxygen- size matters for the yeast freaks
Must be a formula around if you google
Better attend my brew now...
It ok to pitch the starter either way.
High krausen or fermented out.
You'll have quicker action with the former and less lag time.
As for aerating the starter.
Screwtop is right on the money.
With no control of how much oxygen you put in using stir-plate it is better to "aerate just enough"
I leave the stirrer on for a maximum 6 hours.
aerate the wort as you pitch rather then oxidise the starter.
I cannot remember where the thread is and what the recommended time was.
Time- amount oxygen- size matters for the yeast freaks
Must be a formula around if you google
Better attend my brew now...
This has got me thinking further.
I do remember when I orignally built my stir plate I bought a rubber bung (intending to use and airlock through it) for the flask because I was thinking of using a sealed vessel rather than use the alfoil for this very reason. I like the idea of keeping the yeast in suspension to get more of it going faster and quicker but to keep the O2 out toward the back end of the ferment I might give that a shot.
Though I still think for lagers if you are doing starters at room temps you wouldn't want to pitch two litres of starter beer that will have some off flavours because of the temp at which it was fermented.
I do remember when I orignally built my stir plate I bought a rubber bung (intending to use and airlock through it) for the flask because I was thinking of using a sealed vessel rather than use the alfoil for this very reason. I like the idea of keeping the yeast in suspension to get more of it going faster and quicker but to keep the O2 out toward the back end of the ferment I might give that a shot.
Though I still think for lagers if you are doing starters at room temps you wouldn't want to pitch two litres of starter beer that will have some off flavours because of the temp at which it was fermented.
kabooby
Hey muscly arms!!!!
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Here is a pic of the same starter that was posted earlier. Its only a 1.5l jug and I wanted to build up a bit more yeast so I chilled it and poured of the liquid so I could add more wort. Added the wort last night and woke up this morning to find the glad wrap and elastic band had blown off.
This WLP800 realy throws a high krausen
Kabooby :icon_cheers:
This WLP800 realy throws a high krausen
Kabooby :icon_cheers:
