Ss Conical Carbonating

[Renzo]

Hi Everyone.

Can anyone point me to a thread describing how to naturally carbonate in a stainless conical then transfer under pressure to a keg?

Cheers.

 

[fraser_john]

From memory, I do not think I have seen such a thread on this site, I could be wrong of course as I have not searched (I am guessing you have not either).

I have never tried it in my conical, but it would work as long as the lid held the pressure. Probably need an adjustable pressure relief valve like the one Ross sells.

That all said, the yeast would not like to be going through primary fermentation under a lot of CO2 pressure, probably result in some unusual flavors.

 

[crozdog]

Probably need an adjustable pressure relief valve like the one Ross sells.

Aren't they called Spunding valves?

Apart from that sorry can't offer anymore advice.

 

[T.D.]

I grabbed a spunding valve from GB recently. I am fermenting some lagers at the moment so I am not going to use it for those but when I do some ales soon I will get it into action. My plan is to transfer to the keg at around 1.015-20 and set the valve to around 100kpa and let the rest of the fermentation happen in the keg. Looking forward to giving it a try.

I presume in the case of a conical you would just do the same but all in the fermenter. I am guessing one way to transfer it would be to swap the spunding valve over to the keg(s) and set it at say 100kpa and then transfer at 150 for example. Keeps things under pressure and the spunding valve should allow for gas to escape as the beer enters the keg.

 

[Renzo]

Yeah, I was talking to Ross and he said you could ferment in the SS conical then naturally carbonate in it then run it through a filter into a keg. I'm just wondering if there is any info on how exatly to do it.

 

[T.D.]

Not sure when you bring a filter into the equation, never used one. Probably no reason why you couldn't just chuck it in between the fermenter and keg, but make sure you check its pressure rating etc.

 

[///]

Close off at about 1018, let raise to 20c if you can for VDK rest for 3 days, crash chill then pull the plug and any yeast from the FV. Transfer off ...

Or you could try putting in a carb stone in 24hl of beer when it is full ... that sucks!

Scptty

 

[jjeffrey]

1st, be confident that your conical will take the pressure. I've seen a lot of vessels available in home brew shops that will easily split, especially some units from the US that are not made to any sort of pressure vessel standard (by regulation in the oz, any vessel to be used at more than 50kPa needs to be built according to AS 1210, and needs to be inspected/approved). Be especially wary of units made from 1.6thk 304 SS, and units with flat lids. A split vessel is very messy, can be costly to repair, and is potentially dangerous.

2nd- make sure your relief valve is set to the rated pressure of the vessel. It is there to protect your vessel, so you will need to know what the vessel is rated for. If you're unsure, PM me and if I'm not busy getting whipped by my missus for not doing the dishes, I'll estimate it for you.

If your relief valve is suitable, you can use it to set the over pressure- that's the easiest way to naturally carbonate in your fermenter. If not, you need to calculate how much extract you need to leave in your wort before shutting off the vent. This will depend on how much CO2 you want in your beer. I'll detail how to figure this out below.

In order to determine what SG to shut-off at, you need to be confident of the final SG. If it is a recipe you brew often, then you'll know this. If not, draw off 500mL of sweet wort and over-pitch in a flask or some other make-shift mini fermenter. Keep it warm- like 25deg or so, that will make it ferment out way quicker than your main batch, and you can measure the final SG from that, before the main batch is done.

This is the process of calculating when to shut-off SG:

1. Decide how many volumes of CO2 you want in the finished product, and convert this to g/L of CO2 required.
2. Figure out how much fermentable sugar this equates to.
3. Figure out what the final gravity of the beer will be (residual sugar content).
4. Add the fermentable sugar required to the residual sugar aand convert to SG.

1. Use beersmith, promash, Palmer, the AABA beer style guidelines, or look it up on the net.
Lets say I wanted 2.5 volumes in my beer. 1 g/L of CO2 = 0.5 volumes. Therefore, I need 2.5/0.5=5 g/L of CO2.

2. Not all fermentable sugar is turned into CO2. Some is consumed by metabolic processes, and of course some turns into ethanol. Turns out that about 46% becomes CO2 (approximately- varies from one yeast to another, but not by much). So you divide your CO2 required by 0.46 to get the fermentable extract required. In my case, 5/0.46=10.9g/L of extract. Convert this to deg. Plato. Very simply, degrees Plato is how many grams of extract in 100mL of wort. So, 10.9g/L= 1.09P.

3. I'm expecting my beer to finish at 1.011. You need to convert this to P. In my case, it's 2.81P. How did I do that? If you don't have a table or a program or an equation, go here: http://www.brewheads.com/brixsg.php.

4. Add 'em. For me, I get 1.09+2.81=3.9P. Converted to SG, this is 1.015. I tend to go a little higher (say 1.016) to account for leakage.

When you transfer to your keg, you will need to counterpressure, or you will create a lot of fob. If you don't counterpressure, basically what happens is your beer turns to head in your keg and it either takes a long time for the head to die down and your beer goes flat in the process, or you must ditch the head resulting in losses. Pressurise the keg 1st to a bit more than the pressure in the FV, then connect to your vessel to the in line. Then do short pulls on the relief valve of the keg until you are full. Handy hint- sit the keg on some bathroom scales so you know when you are close to full.

jj.

 

[Renzo]

1st, be confident that your conical will take the pressure. I've seen a lot of vessels available in home brew shops that will easily split, especially some units from the US that are not made to any sort of pressure vessel standard (by regulation in the oz, any vessel to be used at more than 50kPa needs to be built according to AS 1210, and needs to be inspected/approved). Be especially wary of units made from 1.6thk 304 SS, and units with flat lids. A split vessel is very messy, can be costly to repair, and is potentially dangerous.

2nd- make sure your relief valve is set to the rated pressure of the vessel. It is there to protect your vessel, so you will need to know what the vessel is rated for. If you're unsure, PM me and if I'm not busy getting whipped by my missus for not doing the dishes, I'll estimate it for you.

If your relief valve is suitable, you can use it to set the over pressure- that's the easiest way to naturally carbonate in your fermenter. If not, you need to calculate how much extract you need to leave in your wort before shutting off the vent. This will depend on how much CO2 you want in your beer. I'll detail how to figure this out below.

In order to determine what SG to shut-off at, you need to be confident of the final SG. If it is a recipe you brew often, then you'll know this. If not, draw off 500mL of sweet wort and over-pitch in a flask or some other make-shift mini fermenter. Keep it warm- like 25deg or so, that will make it ferment out way quicker than your main batch, and you can measure the final SG from that, before the main batch is done.

This is the process of calculating when to shut-off SG:

1. Decide how many volumes of CO2 you want in the finished product, and convert this to g/L of CO2 required.
2. Figure out how much fermentable sugar this equates to.
3. Figure out what the final gravity of the beer will be (residual sugar content).
4. Add the fermentable sugar required to the residual sugar aand convert to SG.

1. Use beersmith, promash, Palmer, the AABA beer style guidelines, or look it up on the net.
Lets say I wanted 2.5 volumes in my beer. 1 g/L of CO2 = 0.5 volumes. Therefore, I need 2.5/0.5=5 g/L of CO2.

2. Not all fermentable sugar is turned into CO2. Some is consumed by metabolic processes, and of course some turns into ethanol. Turns out that about 46% becomes CO2 (approximately- varies from one yeast to another, but not by much). So you divide your CO2 required by 0.46 to get the fermentable extract required. In my case, 5/0.46=10.9g/L of extract. Convert this to deg. Plato. Very simply, degrees Plato is how many grams of extract in 100mL of wort. So, 10.9g/L= 1.09P.

3. I'm expecting my beer to finish at 1.011. You need to convert this to P. In my case, it's 2.81P. How did I do that? If you don't have a table or a program or an equation, go here: http://www.brewheads.com/brixsg.php.

4. Add 'em. For me, I get 1.09+2.81=3.9P. Converted to SG, this is 1.015. I tend to go a little higher (say 1.016) to account for leakage.

When you transfer to your keg, you will need to counterpressure, or you will create a lot of fob. If you don't counterpressure, basically what happens is your beer turns to head in your keg and it either takes a long time for the head to die down and your beer goes flat in the process, or you must ditch the head resulting in losses. Pressurise the keg 1st to a bit more than the pressure in the FV, then connect to your vessel to the in line. Then do short pulls on the relief valve of the keg until you are full. Handy hint- sit the keg on some bathroom scales so you know when you are close to full.

jj.

Thanks for that. Loads of info for me to digest there.
Cheers.

 

[QldKev]

as jj said for the filling of the kegs search for "CPBF" counter pressure bottle filler.

QldKev