Some tips from the experienced

[Coldspace]

Hi first post after reading through this forum for awhile.

Been brewing for a lot of years kits/kilo and few extract receipes and partial 1kg stove top mashes including my favourite bitter ale extract brew which is always on tap at my place for the many mates that drop in.Which annoys SWMBO. Lol.

Got plenty of gear and all runs really well , so the next step is going all grain.

I just finished my mash tun, basically I had the Coleman "extreme" 75ltr cooler sitting in my shed, so saw excellent idea on YouTube for it, went to bunnings, got 2 mtrs of stainless braided hose. Pulled out the inner rubber hose and discarded . Then used the outer sheaf as the wrap around hose in the cooler then "t" it into the drain using fittings from bunnings then through the esky into a ball valve. The idea is to mash and sparge double batches in this cooler then drain into my boilers . This cooler kept a constant 67 to 68 degrees on my digital thermometer upto 90 mins with ease so 60 mins will be no issue.
I have brew mate at home. Just finished learning it.

What is the average amount of water you all grain guys use when mashing, ie 3 to 4 ltrs per kilo, then do you sparge with another 40 to 50% on top at finish to get final volume for boiling?

Eg, if the receipe calls for say 4 kg of grain with final volume 20 ltrs, do I mash with say 20 ltrs then sparge rinse with another 10 to 12 ltrs to get roughly say 27 to 28 ltrs after some losses in the grain etc. then boil this down to 23 ltrs with the hop additions to receipe specs?
If you get to 60 mins and it's only at 23 ltrs can you remove the hop sock and continue the boil till it gets down to 20 ltrs?

Any tips would be great, going to give this ago probably this weekend, I will probably try dr smurto golden ale first .

Tks guys can't wait to test new rig out.

 

[verysupple]

I think you're on the right track. I'm not sure of your liquor-to-grist ratios or sparge amounts, I've read that getting 50/50 from 1st and 2nd runnings is a good place to start.

I BIAB so aren't too sure of the specifics of a system like yours. I just wanted to say in response to this:

The idea is to mash and sparge double batches in this cooler then drain into my boilers .

WIth that sort of mashing capacity you should do parti-gyle!

That's one thing I can't do with my stove-top BIAB setup that'd I'd like to.

 

[Coldspace]

Take for the reply, I just seen on brew mate a calculator to work these things out. My mash tun can drain through the perforated braided 2 mtr stainless hose wraped around the bottom. I then hope to sparge the grain bed as well . Trial and error probably be the way I'll learn this system.

I got to do double batches as I have 6 to 8 kegs that always are needing filling around here. We are bloody beer pigs, lol.

Cheers

 

[verysupple]

I got to do double batches as I have 6 to 8 kegs that always are needing filling around here. We are bloody beer pigs, lol.

Parti-gyle sounds right up your alley. Two different batches for the price (time-wise) of one double batch. You'd need to do two separate boils, but it sounds like you have two kettles, so a parti-gyle shouldn't take you ant longer than a normal double batch.

 

[black_labb]

Alternatively if you nochill you can have quite different beers from one cube to another without using seperate kettles. Using different amounts and different types of hops cube hopping and different yeasts you can get very different beers. Add some adjuncts late or some steeped spec malts and you can do vastly different beers in one batch. I did a belgian dubble and an american IPA in a single batch using this method. The only thing that needs to be in common is the base malts being used and the amount and type of bittering hops.

Partigyle is a great option as well if you like having big differences in alcohol between beers.

 

[Adr_0]

somebody on here will have to chime in about some of the tricks/tweaks for Brewmate (if any). Beersmith for e.g. has its ups and downs and things you need to change in the software to get sensible results: e.g. dead space in mash tun (easy); grain absorption (Beersmith has ~1L water/kg grain, but works better for me at 1.2L/kg grain, which means that you sparge slightly more) and I'm sure there are others.

main thing from this would be measure your dead space (volume you can't move out of your cooler) and put a tiny bit extra on your absorption figure, though Brewmate may be better than Beersmith in this regard. try to also measure your volumes as accurately as possible, including a post-boil volume (obviously a pre-boil too...) to see what your boiloff was and how much you've ended up with before the transfer. you don't want to leave 5-7L in the kettle for e.g. or boil off too much/too little.

get a bazooka screen/strainer for the outlet of your kettle, and whirlpool once your kettle is in its final resting place. i connect my bazooka through an elbow so that it is right up agains the side of the kettle and doesn't impede the whirlpool too much.

try to get a thermocouple if you can so that you're not constantly taking the lid off and checking temps. air gaps are the worst thing for mash tuns and there isn't much that beats the air gap you get when you take the lid off...

i used to use a braided hose (about 8-9 years ago) and people on here can probably comment on the pros and cons: I would say a big con is drainage rate can be limited if the hose is crushed (adds time to your brew day) and makes it harder to get the last bit out of the mash tun; a pro is that it's cheaper than a false bottom, but may not be cheaper if you end up buying a false bottom anyway.

good luck, and enjoy...

 

[Coldspace]

This for info, I'll give it ago as I had everything anyway just had to get the hose and cheap ball valve.

Cheers

 

[Beerbuoy]

Eg, if the receipe calls for say 4 kg of grain with final volume 20 ltrs, do I mash with say 20 ltrs then sparge rinse with another 10 to 12 ltrs to get roughly say 27 to 28 ltrs after some losses in the grain etc. then boil this down to 23 ltrs with the hop additions to receipe specs? Mash with about 3lts per kilo of grain then sparge to get your pre boil volume. I think beer smith uses 2.4lt/kg as default but I go for 3 as its easier to mix and works better with my herms setup.
If you get to 60 mins and it's only at 23 ltrs can you remove the hop sock and continue the boil till it gets down to 20 ptrs? No, unless you want an overly bitter beer. Removing the hop sock won't stop the isomerization of the hop oils which gives bitterness. Hitting your post boil volume is a case of trail and error. Try aiming on the low side and check the volume with 5-10min remaining, if its looking low add some top up water.

 

[Coldspace]

Eg, if the receipe calls for say 4 kg of grain with final volume 20 ltrs, do I mash with say 20 ltrs then sparge rinse with another 10 to 12 ltrs to get roughly say 27 to 28 ltrs after some losses in the grain etc. then boil this down to 23 ltrs with the hop additions to receipe specs? Mash with about 3lts per kilo of grain then sparge to get your pre boil volume. I think beer smith uses 2.4lt/kg as default but I go for 3 as its easier to mix and works better with my herms setup.
If you get to 60 mins and it's only at 23 ltrs can you remove the hop sock and continue the boil till it gets down to 20 ptrs? No, unless you want an overly bitter beer. Removing the hop sock won't stop the isomerization of the hop oils which gives bitterness. Hitting your post boil volume is a case of trail and error. Try aiming on the low side and check the volume with 5-10min remaining, if its looking low add some top up water.

Many tks for the tips. I'll give it ago this weekend. Might try single batches first to practise and put alfoil on top to help with headspace. So much to learn.

Cheers

 

[Tahoose]

Just have a go with the settings on brewmate in the brew day mode, sometimes I find I may overshoot the mash temp or be a little bit under, but generally if you measure the temp of you grain, and that of your water and plug it in you should be pretty close.

If I'm under I use brewerfriend calculators to add some boiling water and get my temp up (google brewers friend) they also have a good guide for a infusion step mash....

If I'm over I just give the mash paddle a bit of an extra work out, extra stirring can't hurt my mash...

Fly sparging will give you better efficiency, but batch sparging can be good aswell, and save you alot of time.

It's all about how you want to do it.

Some of what I wrote may not be the best advice but I'm still learning too, so I hope some of has been useful.

 

[Coldspace]

Many tks guys for the tips . Will get my gear sorted and buy me some grain.

Regards
Matt

 

[Coldspace]

Hi guys,

Well I did my first all grain batch today. And need some advice.
I did smurtos golden ale 20 ltr batch. The receipe on brew mate estimates OG of 1.046 at 70% efficiency . I got 1.030 which is around 45% efficiency. Anyway it's in the fermenter I'll just get a light/mid version I guess. Lol.

I mashed in my 36 ltr esky with stainless hose manifold. I started with approx 12 ltrs of strike water at 72 then stirred in the grain. I had 2 ltrs of boiling water, which it poured in when the temp dropped down to about 63 then it shot up to 70 so I poured in about 2 ltrs of cold water and finally after about 5 mins the temp settled on about 67. So total water in esky now about 16 ltrs.
I foil topped it then sealed and left for 1 hr. I then forgot to do a mash out stage!!! I checked the temp and it was down to about 64 so I opened up the tap and drained about 3 ltrs of first runnings into a jug , then when I could see the wort getting clearer I drained into kettle. I then did a double batch sparge with 8 ltrs each time at 80 degree water to get final vol into kettle of 28 ltrs.

I boiled for 1 hr and got down to 24 ltrs, immersion chilled, drained 21 into FV and left 3 ltrs to trub.
Readings were 1.030 at 20 c.

Can anyone see where I went wrong. I did noticed that about 1/3 rd of the grains from my lhbs were still whole. Would this make a difference?

Another issue could be , that the sugars are not rinsing out through my ghetto manifold properly?

Or all of the above caused me to get a crap result.

Would I be better just doing a BIAB system, to make it easier for me. It's a lot of time if each of my brews end up as light/mids.

Will give it another wirl when I learn some more.

Cheers

 

[Screwtop]

Grains can be crushed but appear whole if the husk is relatively intact, you need to roll one of the whole grains in your fingers to see if the inner (endosperm) is broken up.

What was your estimated preboil volume and gravity? What was your estimated post boil volume? Did you do a temp adjustment of your post boil gravity reading?


Screwy

 

[Coldspace]

Grains can be crushed but appear whole if the husk is relatively intact, you need to roll one of the whole grains in your fingers to see if the inner (endosperm) is broken up.

What was your estimated preboil volume and gravity? What was your estimated post boil volume? Did you do a temp adjustment of your post boil gravity reading?


Screwy

Hey mate,
Estimated pre boil was 27 ltrs I got 28. Not sure of gravity never took it. Post boil was 24 lts and when cooled to 20c showed 1.030 on hydro.

I got a 35 ltr boiler I use for spirits, that's what I used. I will get a large bag, and do a BIAB in this boiler. I suspect my ghetto mash tun and sparring arrangement is shit.

Also the grains , some were still hard. I should have taken more notice.

So much to learn, lucky I got plenty of extract brews on tap. A don't wanna run out of beer while I try to get into this all grain world.

 

[Screwtop]

Persist and learn. Going BIAB using a bad crush won't change the result. Change malt supplier/HBS!

Sounds like the crush wasn't real good. You were over on pre boil but to boil off 4 litres and end up with 1.030 your pre boil gravity would have had to be around 1.025 which would have rung alarm bells. What was your grainbill?

Screwy

 

[Coldspace]

Yeah, should have checked pre boil grav, just rushed into it all cocky, ha. Will check on next one.

Grain was 2.4 kg pale malt, .8 kg of Munich, .8 of wheat malt, .25 of caramunich.

I like heavy beers, but if this tastes ok then I will scull it down as a light/ mid at least it's my first all grain. Lol.

I don't care about grain cost, do you think if I up the grain by 50% I will get more like 1.050 as this is where I want to be.

As I get better then I can reduce the grain down.

Obviously the pros can get 1.o46 with the less grain, but while I am learning then maybe I just use more grain or add 1 kg of dex or something but then that's not all grain.
Might try my next grain from craft brewer , they are 40 mins further for me but might be a lot better crush.

Would maybe mashing for 90 mins be better than 60 for learner?

Cheers

 

[mr_wibble]

[...] I opened up the tap and drained about 3 ltrs of first runnings into a jug , then when I could see the wort getting clearer I drained into kettle

I had problems with efficiency because I was running off the wort too fast.

Sparging needs time for the sugars in the mash to dissolve into the sparge water. Draining the wort too quickly both compacts and forms channels in the mash-bed. So instead of the water flowing through the whole bed of grain - washing out sugars on the way through, it quickly escapes through the channels, leaving sugars & flavours behind.

The wort should trickle out of the mash-tun.

As an analogy, think of making a cup of tea where the tea-bag is only in the water for a second.

cheers,
-kt

 

[Donske]

Obviously the pros can get 1.o46 with the less grain, but while I am learning then maybe I just use more grain or add 1 kg of dex or something but then that's not all grain.
Might try my next grain from craft brewer , they are 40 mins further for me but might be a lot better crush.

Would maybe mashing for 90 mins be better than 60 for learner?

Cheers

Getting your grain from craft brewer would be a good option, never had an issue with the crush from there before I bought a mill.

Also, a 90 minute mash is a good idea while learning, I found I got a few extra points when I first started by letting the mash rest longer.

 

[Coldspace]

Tks for the tips guys.

I will take notice on next batch.

I will get grain with more consistent crush.
I will drain a lot slower, I just cracked the tap fully and drained tun in like 1 minute, so will slow it right down.
I will sparge a lot slower , and as I batch sparge will leave it to soak for say 5 mins? Instead of filling up running out fast.
I will mash for say 90 mins instead of 60. What's 30 mins when having beers on sat arvo.
I will check preboil gravity this time.
I will get my temps a lot more under control.

I will drink more beer!!!!! Lol.

Cheers for the tips. I will report back.

 

[Donske]

Tks for the tips guys.

I will take notice on next batch.

I will get grain with more consistent crush.
I will drain a lot slower, I just cracked the tap fully and drained tun in like 1 minute, so will slow it right down.
I will sparge a lot slower , and as I batch sparge will leave it to soak for say 5 mins? Instead of filling up running out fast.
I will mash for say 90 mins instead of 60. What's 30 mins when having beers on sat arvo.
I will check preboil gravity this time.
I will get my temps a lot more under control.

I will drink more beer!!!!! Lol.

Cheers for the tips. I will report back.

I tend to let my batch sparge rest for 10 minutes after a good stir, I also do 2 sparges on advice I read on this forum, it's helped my efficiency a bit, sitting at a pretty consistent 70-72% which I'm happy with, much better than the consistent 61% I was getting with BIAB.