Some Random Questions About Kits

[Strange Dog]

Hi,

I saw in the instructions for my coopers lager kit a bit where it said that after adding all the water to the fermenter the wort was in a sensitive state and that it was more important to add the yeast quickly than to wait for the temperature to be correct. I am just wondering what is so sensitive about the wort prior to adding yeast? Isnt it just a bunch of warm water with sugar and flavouring? I would have thought the wort was pretty much immune to damage prior to the yeast going in and only after the yeast it would be susceptible to harm. Do you think they meant that it could attract bacteria, in which case leaving the lid on would keep it safe if delays were inevitable? My second brew was initially way to hot and I had to wait 3 hours for it to cool down (with the lid on the whole time) before I could add the yeast, is it going to be completely stuffed ?

And on an unrelated topic, why is re-hydrating yeast prior to pitching advantageous? Why is it any different adding the yeast to a bowl of warm water any different to adding it to a warm fermenter? They are both warm water, whats the difference? Does the presence of the sugar and flavouring in the fermenter give the yeast a harder time?

Also, am I correct in assuming that "all grain" brewing is a process used to avoid having to use a can of extract? Is all grain brewing similar to using a kit except that you have to cook your "extract" from scratch ?

 

[raven19]

was initially way to hot and I had to wait 3 hours for it to cool down (with the lid on the whole time) before I could add the yeast, is it going to be completely stuffed ?

Not at all, there will be a lag time after pitching yeast in any case up to 24 hours in some cases.

And on an unrelated topic, why is re-hydrating yeast prior to pitching advantageous?

Rehydrating yeast in luke warm water is better than in the wort as the dried yeast takes up liquid (water). If this is done in a wort solution, approximately 50% die off.

Also, am I correct in assuming that "all grain" brewing is a process used to avoid having to use a can of extract? Is all grain brewing similar to using a kit except that you have to cook your "extract" from scratch ?

Opening a can of worms here! A can of goop has a lot of the work of wort production completed for you. So it can save a heap of time for the brewer.

I see all grain as taking raw materials and turning them into quality beer. I started with kits and bits and they certainly have their place in the home brewing world.

Get your hands on the 'Yeast' Book by White and Jamil for a heap of good info on the above yeast items.

 

[Nick JD]

There are bacteria and wild yeasts in your brew before you add your yeast. Actually, there are bacteria and wild yeasts in the packet of yeast (seriously).

It's a war in your fermenter. You have to present arms as quickly and as heavily as you can, or the natives will get restless.

Native beer tastes like arse.

 

[Cocko]

Also, am I correct in assuming that "all grain" brewing is a process used to avoid having to use a can of extract? Is all grain brewing similar to using a kit except that you have to cook your "extract" from scratch ?

Hey SD,

Sort of to correct in a way....

There is an old adage in home brewing, if I recall correctly, that:

Brewing beer is like making spaghetti sauce!

Kit brewing: Is like mixing up some Domlio and boiling some pasta... You can make a very nice dish, and you can even add some extra Garlic, Pepper or even fry up some onions or capsicum etc....

All Grain: Choose your tomatoes, how much 'X' herb/s, how much garlic? Its like an old italian ladies recipes vs a Dolmio jar...

Or what ever...

:icon_drunk:

 

[Strange Dog]

Rehydrating yeast in luke warm water is better than in the wort as the dried yeast takes up liquid (water). If this is done in a wort solution, approximately 50% die off.

That leads me to another question - does the yeast actually reproduce in the fermenter? Like, given an ideal environment and enough time, would 7g of yeast end up making the same beer as 11g of yeast? Are greater quantities of yeast used only to ensure there is enough yeast after rehydration to reproduce? Can you add too much yeast ?

 

[Silo Ted]

the wort was in a sensitive state

Sounds like Cocko on the Friday night chat :lol:

 

[Strange Dog]

It's a war in your fermenter. You have to present arms as quickly and as heavily as you can, or the natives will get restless.

Native beer tastes like arse.

:lol: You should write a book for beginners using this style of writing, I would buy it!

 

[Silo Ted]

:lol: You should write a book for beginners using this style of writing, I would buy it!

On tasting ass ?

 

[yum beer]

Native beer tastes like arse.

Yes, but native arse does not taste like beer....maybe used beer... :icon_vomit:

 

[raven19]

That leads me to another question - does the yeast actually reproduce in the fermenter? Like, given an ideal environment and enough time, would 7g of yeast end up making the same beer as 11g of yeast? Are greater quantities of yeast used only to ensure there is enough yeast after rehydration to reproduce? Can you add too much yeast ?

Yeast will reproduce until all oxygen reserves are depleted, then they get cracking on easting sugars and producing alcohol

 

[Cocko]

Sounds like Cocko on the Friday night chat :lol:

Oi! What happens on chat stays on chat! ....Or on the boards or wherever..

:lol:

 

[Muscovy_333]

Yeast are single celled organisms. They reproduce by splitting in two, very rapidly when conditions suit. As long as your conditions are right you will end up with a lot more than 7g of yeast in your finished brew. As mentioned previosuly by JD...its a battle in the fermenter initially. As long as you have healthy viable numbers to get things going they are pretty robust little beasts.
If you sctatch somewhere you shouldn't while your stirring your wort you may introduce something special and invent a new beer arse like beer.
Your right about the numbers, greater quantities ensure a safer start, once they are up and running your chosen yeast will 'knock out' its competitors.
Too much yeast...I'm sure you can add too much, probably no harm, but no doubt no value in it either.

That leads me to another question - does the yeast actually reproduce in the fermenter? Like, given an ideal environment and enough time, would 7g of yeast end up making the same beer as 11g of yeast? Are greater quantities of yeast used only to ensure there is enough yeast after rehydration to reproduce? Can you add too much yeast ?

 

[Yob]

Too much yeast...I'm sure you can add too much, probably no harm, but no doubt no value in it either.

too much yeast pitched will result in less ester formation, to little results in too much ester formation, basicly, you want the yeast to reproduce a certain ammount not too little not too much...

Stressed yeast do not produce great beer... this I am finding out first hand as I try and dial in with repitching slurry... think Im getting there though

ooh it's a fine art!!

Yob

 

[kungfutigerrob]

Since we are talking about yeast, I'll thow in my limited observations.
When I'm making a pizza or bread dough, most recipes ask you to start the dry yeast 30 minutes beforehand in luke warm water with a bit of sugar.

I'm a chef, and I understand why you do this. It's because yeast is a living thing, and with all living organisms, you need relative warmth and food to thrive.
After 30 minutes, the yeast has multiplied and is very active, it's literally frothing.

That's for bread yeast.
From my obversations of dry beer yeast, I've used the packet dry yeast that comes with the cans, plus I've used Safale S-05, S-04 and Saflager S-23.

I always re-hydrate the yeast, and I have found that the yeast that comes with the cans are still very inactive and placid after 30 minutes. Whereas the Saf yeasts (and any quality yeast I'm sure) are very frothy and active, very much like the bread yeasts that I'm used to seeing with the added sugar nutrients.

This leads me to think that the quality yeasts have nutrients embedded in them to kick start them.
So my very beginner obversations lead me to think that a good yeast just needs re-hydrating in luke warm water for 30 minutes prior to pitching (in a sanitised cup covered with cling wrap and a rubber band), and can yeast needs the same treatment but with a small amount of sugar added.

 

[Deebo]

I have never really seen any difference in sprinkling dried yeast on the top and rehydrating it (if anything the rehydrated yeast seemed to have a greater lag time).

My totally unscientific theory:
Yeast like hanging together at the top of the brew, when you rehydrate and chuck it in they get all seperated throughout the beer and cant work together as well.
(900 people are going to give scientific reasons why this is incorrect now)

 

[Bribie G]

Dead right. I reckon I can negate the radiation effects from my monitor by placing a certain cactus in a pot and a certain crystal at the correct Feng Shui axis - works for me.

 

[Deebo]

Dead right. I reckon I can negate the radiation effects from my monitor by placing a certain cactus in a pot and a certain crystal at the correct Feng Shui axis - works for me.

Make sure its a blue pot.

 

[Blackapple]

There is no blue pot

 

[ShredMaster]

Dead right. I reckon I can negate the radiation effects from my monitor by placing a certain cactus in a pot and a certain crystal at the correct Feng Shui axis - works for me.

HAHAHAHahahahha!

I'm safe mate. I never read internet forums without my alfoil hat, it goes hand in hand with the antivirus software!!


But to at least try and keep on topic, to the OP: rehydrating yeast is handy because the dry yeast requires water to become "alive" and do the things it does best - reproduce, eat sugars, shit alcohol and burp carbon dioxide (and a few other thingies depending on how its mood is). When the water solution is full of sugar, it's not mostly water, it's sugar-water and that's not as easy for the dry cells to draw in as plain old sanitised water at the right temp. The idea is to rehydrate within about 1/2 hour of pitching to basically wake up the yeast and let them know it's morning, time to have breakfast and then shove them face first into a big bottle of sugar-water. Then they do their job...

With the yeast that comes with the can, it's probably been cooked in transport or could be quite old. Assuming it is somehow fresh yeast, it is still probably not the best yeast to use depending on your average fermenting temp. As the instructions clearly show, they just expect it to ferment sugar to alcohol, not make it taste good. Spend the extra $5-$10 and get some "fresh" yeast and you will see a HUGE improvement to the taste of your beer.

Harness your yeast, learn what it likes and what yeast is best for your temperature and style of beer and you will make good beer. If you use the kit yeast, you will make beer.

My 2c worth mate, I'm still learning but "yeast control" is, in my opinion, the most important part to making your beer: it is the bit that actually turns sweet wort into beer, that's kinda the important part to me...


Cheers,
Shred.

 

[MHB]

Microorganisms mostly come in two flavours Aerobic and Anaerobic, there are a few (yeast included) that can survive both in air and in Oxygen free environments. This is a big help to us as brewers most of the contaminating bugs cark it when the yeast have used up all the O2 and because the wort originally had dissolved Oxygen most of the anaerobic bugs never got a start.
So as far as it goes the advice is good, get the yeast in a quick as you can, better to plan your brewing so you use as little hot/boiling water as possible, with a bit of practice its not that hard to finish up very close to pitching temperatures. Until you get a bit of practice or in hot weather, its a good idea to have 5-10 L of water cold in the fridge so you can get down to the best yeast pitching temperature without any waiting around for some nasty to get a toe hold.

I once read in a description of brewing that in making a wort we make the worlds most infectable substance, then try to control what lives in it

Think Ill leave the rest of your questions for someone else to chew over, but the most important first steps in brewing (well fermenting) are to Keep it Clean and Keep it Cool.
MHB