Some Questions On Brewing Cider

[dingo34]

Hi All,
This is my first post here, I found this forum doing a search in google for home brew forum australia..

I wish to brew my own cider. As a cider drinker here in South Australia, my favourite cider is Bulmers cider, not that easy to get and expensive, and then my next favourite (the one I drink most) is Strongbow Dry. I don't like the sweet or original, they are too sweet. I can't drink Mercury cider either, for some reason it makes my teeth itchy.

Anyway, I would love to make a brew that resembled somewhat, Bulmers or Strongbow Dry, but more importantly, avoid anything that is too sweet.

I have found that there are quite a few recipes and methods.

If I wanted to brew using straight apple juice, and was to use 18 litres of the stuff (I have the standard Coopers brew drum), where would I get so much at the best price?

Is using stright apple juice the best way for my tastes?

Are there any brew kits from local brewhouses that would give me something close to my tastes?

How about any recipes from those who like the same ciders as I do?

Thanks guys
Dingo

 

[adniels3n]

If you like dry cider, then you're in luck. Making it sweet is the harder bit. The yeast will eat up all the sugar leaving barely any sweetness at all.
If I'm buying juice, I wait till the Berri 2.4L come on sale. I aim for $1/L. Aldi or similar shops may be cheaper, but out here I'm stuck with Woolies or Coles.
For kits, Blackrock seems to get more positive comments than Brigalow.
Try a small batch done in the juice bottle first if you want a small scale taste test.
Have a search around in here, there's a few "My 1st Cider" type threads.

 

[Greg.L]

I think all the commercial cider in Australia is sweetened, even the stuff they call dry. Strongbow dry is actually fairly sweet. By law cider in Australia for sale must be mostly fermented apple juice, so its not really a recipe thing, more like wine in choosing the right juice and process. You should try to get some fully dry cider to see if you like it.
The easiest way to sweeten cider is in a keg kept cool and force-carbed with co2, so you can avoid bottle bombs. The best cider comes from the best juice, but aside from growing and pressing your own apples its not so easy to get good juice in Oz. Supermarket stuff is mostly concentrate from china.

 

[Airgead]

There is also a very good Austro Vino kit available through Ibrew. Its probably the best I have seen. I used to make it heaps before I switched to pressing my own juice. Its made from real cider apples so it gives a better flavour than some ciders made out of supermarket juice. Supermarket juice tends to be too low in acid and astringency to make a really good cider. You can add acid and tannin to help it out though.

Cheers
Dave

 

[dingo34]

Thanks for that, I never ever thought of doing a sample bottle in the juice bottle.....how easy is it? I mean, i have only ever done kits so wouldn't know where to start.....I'll have to have a look around this forum....as for kits, I did try brigalow a couple of years back but it lacked taste, it was like bubbly water more than anything else...

If you like dry cider, then you're in luck. Making it sweet is the harder bit. The yeast will eat up all the sugar leaving barely any sweetness at all.
If I'm buying juice, I wait till the Berri 2.4L come on sale. I aim for $1/L. Aldi or similar shops may be cheaper, but out here I'm stuck with Woolies or Coles.
For kits, Blackrock seems to get more positive comments than Brigalow.
Try a small batch done in the juice bottle first if you want a small scale taste test.
Have a search around in here, there's a few "My 1st Cider" type threads.

 

[dingo34]

Thanks, this was something I didn't actually know....can you suggest a dry cider for me to try?

I think all the commercial cider in Australia is sweetened, even the stuff they call dry. Strongbow dry is actually fairly sweet. By law cider in Australia for sale must be mostly fermented apple juice, so its not really a recipe thing, more like wine in choosing the right juice and process. You should try to get some fully dry cider to see if you like it.
The easiest way to sweeten cider is in a keg kept cool and force-carbed with co2, so you can avoid bottle bombs. The best cider comes from the best juice, but aside from growing and pressing your own apples its not so easy to get good juice in Oz. Supermarket stuff is mostly concentrate from china.

 

[dingo34]

When i did a search on home brew cider recipes, I saw this a lot, pressing your own juice...is this hard, is it the better way to go for both cost and taste? I'm willing to try different methods...cheers

There is also a very good Austro Vino kit available through Ibrew. Its probably the best I have seen. I used to make it heaps before I switched to pressing my own juice. Its made from real cider apples so it gives a better flavour than some ciders made out of supermarket juice. Supermarket juice tends to be too low in acid and astringency to make a really good cider. You can add acid and tannin to help it out though.

Cheers
Dave

 

[wynnum1]

Made one batch of cider from Woolworth home brand 3 l total 20 L using Essencia - Super 6 Ultra Pure turned out quite good the super 6 is nutrient and yeast used 20 grams out of 100 g pack no added sugar about 5% next batch 26 L coles homebrand 3 l but added 2 kg white sugar and rest of yeast mixture .Sugar boiled with phosphoric acid and water for 20 minutes trying to invert sugar which after a week bubbling quickly now

 

[KudaPucat]

When i did a search on home brew cider recipes, I saw this a lot, pressing your own juice...is this hard, is it the better way to go for both cost and taste? I'm willing to try different methods...cheers

It's relatively easy, though time consuming or requiring gear.
Greg and I both puree Apple then press it (puree is too fine a term, perhaps mulch would be better) using an apple scratter(me) or a garden mulcher (Greg) we had quite a big discussion about it recently in this forum, so you should be able to find it. it definitely had cider in the title, perhaps 'whole apples' or something too.

We then press with a hydraulic press after wrapping the apples in cheesecloth to make 'cheeses'

If you have to buy your apple, unless you able to get them from an orchard at stupid cheap prices, then I don't think pressing your own juice is as financially viable as getting juice from the market.
Check out your local markets and farmer's markets, some apple merchants sell pure fresh, preservative free juice. WIth some warning, they could bring you 20 litres at a good price.

If you get raw juice, you don't need nutrient. Yeast just LOVE apple juice.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Apple Juice from Aldi, decent homebrew dried yeast (at least 12g) - I used Nottingham last time, because it tends to ferment very dry and likes lower temps. If you want some fancy juice to give it a bit of depth (I used some cloudy stuff from BiLo) or some other fruit (apples, raspberries, blueberries - so it's a bit like Koppenberg/Rekorderlig) then feel free, but not necessary.

Sterlise fermenter, rehydrate yeast with lukewarm water until it looks like it's happy and eating (a teaspoon of sugar never hurts here) and once all is ready, chuck in apple juice and then yeast, give it a stir and leave until finished (hydrometer test - around 1.005-1.010 for mine).

That'll do it for the brewing side.

Goomba

 

[Airgead]

When i did a search on home brew cider recipes, I saw this a lot, pressing your own juice...is this hard, is it the better way to go for both cost and taste? I'm willing to try different methods...cheers

I press between 30 and 40kg of apples (a mix of sweet eating and tart cooking) apples each year through a simple screw press juicer. Works a treat but it does take most of a day. One of these days I'll invest ion a proper scratter and press.

The tart apples add the acidity you need to balance the cider. I throw them through cores and all to extract tannins which helps with the balance as well.

Well worth the effort IMHO.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Greg.L]

Hard to suggest a dry cider for you. You might be able to get a dry english craft cider from one of the big bottle shops. The easiest way is to make some yourself. people do 4L batches, a 4L glass jug is a good way to get started. I think glass demijohns are the best way to make cider, and you need to top them up right into the neck once primary has finished to keep air out. If you do it that way its pretty foolproof, but you need to allow at least 2 months ageing, preferably 4-6 months to let the flavour settle.

Greg

 

[Tanga]

I like Strongbow dry, and so far my fav cider made with bought juice are the apple and pear (I used 1/4 pear, but will probably ramp it up to 50% next time as it could have done with more sweetness) and apple and blackcurrent. The yeast I used was 1118 - so it brewed out pretty dry. A cider yeast might give you some residual sweetness.

I used oztops because you get a result quicker, but here's the ghetto version:
Buy the juice you want to trial
Pour out a cup (drink it, whatever)
Put 1/4 teaspoon of dry yeast in
Put some gladwrap over the top of the bottle and seal it with a rubber band. Clean and keep the lid.
Brew for a couple of weeks (maybe 3-4 in this weather) - try and keep it kind of constant though, whatever the temp (not up and down heaps).

When it's done* gently pour the juice off the lees (the dead yeast) and into a softdrink bottle. Add about 8g of sugar a litre for priming purposes. Let sit for at least a week (or probably two) until the bottle is hard (ie full of CO2) and then refrigerate for as long as you can handle not drinking it (at least a day, a week is ideal) and then taste.

*you can guess whether it's done - based on the yeast dropping out and the time being up - but I suggest you use your hydrometer. You can put it straight into the bottle after a couple of weeks. Make sure it's clean and you pour boiling water over it to reduce the risk of infection.

I think that's a pretty good way of trailing different kinds of juice. You can mix together some apple and pear juices to see which is the best ratio for your tastes (1/4 pear worked for me, but I think 1/3 or even 1/2 might be better).

You won't get something that tastes like Bulmers easily unless you Keg (because it's sweet) but you can aim for something like strongbow dry and get it pretty easily using just juice and yeast.

 

[nathanR]

I have been doing a cider with just apple & pear juice

30 Lt of berri apple and pear juice
S04 ale yeast
yeast nutrient
coopers Brew enhancer 1


it has turned out pretty tasty a lot nicer than straight apple juice

 

[dingo34]

Allrighty!!! Thanks for all the tips. I reckon first off, I'm gonna go Tanga's way, just for tasting purposes. I assume all these fancy yeasts, such as 1118 and others I see mentioned have to be bought from a brew shop..is this correct? I assume you don't use a dried yeast that is used in baking bread etc, like the ones you get at the supermarket?

cheers
An excited Dingo!

 

[Tanga]

Yup, you can get them online too - look at the dried yeast to start - it's more convenient for small batches. I haven't tried the S04 yeast suggested by Nathan, but have heard good things about it as a cider yeast (it is a beer yeast, but is pretty neutral in flavour so works well for cider too). If want to do only cider (not wine) you can do worse than grabbing a couple of sachets of S04 to play with (you will only need to use 1/10 of the sachet for each bottle though - not one per bottle).

1118 comes in dry form too, and will (probably) give you a dryer taste - so if you want you can compare them. Either will work.

D47 is a wine yeast (so it will do wine and cider) but doesn't end up quite as dry as 1118 so is a good mid range one. It is one of the better mead yeasts I've come across too (only aged my current batch 4 months and it's drinking well).

None of these should set you back more than a few bucks a sachet/tube of dry. Five bucks tops.

I haven't tried adding any malt to a cider yet, but Nathan's looks like a good one. If you don't want to try making a small batch of that I certainly will - I'll let you know how it turns out =).

 

[dingo34]

Cheers for all that...speaking of adding other things, which I shall do in due time...I was at the Inglewood pub a few fridays ago and asked them what cidars they had, and apart from Aussie cider on tap (which I don't like), they had some locally made, from Houghton a Cider Stout, or Stout Cider, one of the two... :huh: , and I didn't think I'd take to them, but tried one and before the night was out I was buying a six pack to go....


on another note, could someone help me with a technical issue with this forum...when i am writing my posts, i can't see a cursor, etc and am unable to move back and edit withuot having to delete everything i wrote back to the part i want to change, it's really weird..unless i need a cider...yep maybe thats it..

Yup, you can get them online too - look at the dried yeast to start - it's more convenient for small batches. I haven't tried the S04 yeast suggested by Nathan, but have heard good things about it as a cider yeast (it is a beer yeast, but is pretty neutral in flavour so works well for cider too). If want to do only cider (not wine) you can do worse than grabbing a couple of sachets of S04 to play with (you will only need to use 1/10 of the sachet for each bottle though - not one per bottle).

1118 comes in dry form too, and will (probably) give you a dryer taste - so if you want you can compare them. Either will work.

D47 is a wine yeast (so it will do wine and cider) but doesn't end up quite as dry as 1118 so is a good mid range one. It is one of the better mead yeasts I've come across too (only aged my current batch 4 months and it's drinking well).

None of these should set you back more than a few bucks a sachet/tube of dry. Five bucks tops.

I haven't tried adding any malt to a cider yet, but Nathan's looks like a good one. If you don't want to try making a small batch of that I certainly will - I'll let you know how it turns out =).

 

[felten]

on another note, could someone help me with a technical issue with this forum...when i am writing my posts, i can't see a cursor, etc and am unable to move back and edit withuot having to delete everything i wrote back to the part i want to change, it's really weird..unless i need a cider...yep maybe thats it..

you have to toggle the rich text editor... like this

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Its related so rather than start a new one, il just tag on the back of this one.

I want to re-culture my Wyeast Cider 4766 from a few of my earlier attempts

Can i just use 1035 gravity Dex and water? will they still be ok to eat the fruit sugars after?
i will prob use juice later on in the stepping up, i have none at the moment.

cheers

 

[pk.sax]

Cider is quite forgiving. Should be ok with dex. Fruit sugars aren't too complex wrt dex anyway, less diff than malt.

PS: op - do it how tanga has so thoroughly described but use the home/cles brand cloudy apple juice from their fridge shelf. Any White wine yeast will do, think ec-1118 is the most widely stocked by brew shops. Keep it simple and you'll be happy. I'd suggest, before the fermentation is totally over (day 3-4) put the bottle cap back on and stickthe bottle in the door of your fridge, it will continue to ferment and carbonate in the same bottle. Really nothing wrong with pouring sparkling cider off the original yeast lees as you go down the bottle the dryness increases given time to the slowed down ferment and taste a bunch of different flavours out of it.