Some Questions On Brewing Cider

[super_simian]

My best simple attempt so far used Coopers Homebrew Yeast, the gold foil packet from their kit cans. The apple/pear/banana aroma really set off the cider, and a little bit of strong tea help bump some tannins in.

 

[KudaPucat]

The best commercial actually dry cider I've had was called "Bress" I think. Very good on a hot day. Hard to drink on a cold night. So probably what you'd expect.
It's bloody expensive, some $28 per 750ml, but a damn fine drop.
I've only ever had it in Daylesford, Victoria. So I hope it's not too local a brew.

 

[dingo34]

OK, I have bought a 3 litre Apple Juice from Coles, which said 'No Added sugar'.( I could not find the cloudy apple juice in the fridge section practical fool mention -

use the home/cles brand cloudy apple juice from their fridge shelf

. I am assuming you meant coles?).

I also went to BrewCraft, I don't know any other brew shops in the Salisbury area, but they did not have 1118 yeast, said it's hard to get, but gave me what he said is equivalent, CL23 wine yeast.

I asked him if the yeast will keep in the fridge, he said maybe maybe not, it's not something you could count on, so I thought, maybe then I will buy 4 or 5 different types of Apple juices etc, to see which turns out better,

But, I did have another question, Tanga, you mentioned to just put yeast in, not sugar, until the 2nd stage, is that right? I only ask because when i brewed beer i was sure we put sugar in both stages

Cheers

 

[KudaPucat]

<snip>
I also went to BrewCraft, I don't know any other brew shops in the Salisbury area, but they did not have 1118 yeast, said it's hard to get, but gave me what he said is equivalent, CL23 wine yeast.

I asked him if the yeast will keep in the fridge, he said maybe maybe not, it's not something you could count on, so I thought, maybe then I will buy 4 or 5 different types of Apple juices etc, to see which turns out better,

But, I did have another question, Tanga, you mentioned to just put yeast in, not sugar, until the 2nd stage, is that right? I only ask because when i brewed beer i was sure we put sugar in both stages

Cheers

1. Find a new brew shop Lalvin 1118 is one of the most common yeasts sold in this country
2. It will keep just fine in the fridge. condensation is your biggest enemy, so if you can vacuum seal it, it'll have more chance
3. you shouldn't need to add sugar unless you want to
a ) have a higher alcohol content or residual sweetness
b ) destroy some of the apple flavour... pure glucose imho blows off some aromatics when fermented. It's good for beer and spirits, but I keep it away from such wonderful things as apple and fruit wines and mead.

When I've made cidre, it's just been pure apple juice and yeast. With your store bought apple juice, you may need to add nutrient, so keep a nostril out for faint sulphur/rotten egg smells, and feed the yeast if need be.

I've never used the yeast you were sold so I cannot comment.
However if it makes a good batch, I can tell you your cidre wont last long, so your idea of a compare and contrast is probably a good idea.

Edit: You'll want to make sure the apple juice is preservative free... if it's been loaded with Sodium Metabi-sulphate, your yeast probably wont take.

 

[Tanga]

What he said. Especially the bit about preservative free juice.

The sugar I mentioned (12g/L) is not much, a few teaspoons, and is added after the fermentation is finished just for the bubbles.

 

[Gopha]

OK, I have bought a 3 litre Apple Juice from Coles, which said 'No Added sugar'.( I could not find the cloudy apple juice in the fridge section practical fool mention - . I am assuming you meant coles?).

I also went to BrewCraft, I don't know any other brew shops in the Salisbury area, but they did not have 1118 yeast, said it's hard to get, but gave me what he said is equivalent, CL23 wine yeast.

I asked him if the yeast will keep in the fridge, he said maybe maybe not, it's not something you could count on, so I thought, maybe then I will buy 4 or 5 different types of Apple juices etc, to see which turns out better,

But, I did have another question, Tanga, you mentioned to just put yeast in, not sugar, until the 2nd stage, is that right? I only ask because when i brewed beer i was sure we put sugar in both stages

Cheers

Hi, if you need some help and live on the north side, PM me for a phone number and I wil walk you through the process. CL23 yeast is a Vintners Harvest yeast and is a Brewcraft own brand, just repackaged wine yeasts. I use SN9 for my annual Mead and Cyser, both are variations of a champagne yeast. My experience with Brewcraft Salisbury is such that I prefer not to go there. Cheers

 

[KudaPucat]

Oh, just priming sugar? Yeah well don't have much choice. I suppose you could add raw juice, but it would not be worth the effort.

<snip>
My experience with Brewcraft Salisbury is such that I prefer not to go there. Cheers

Lol! From the horse's mouth! As I predicted ;-)

 

[Tanga]

Just googled it. Yeah, same yeast, more or less. If you live out south I'll probably be up for it. Or at least the tasting sesh in a couple of weeks =p

 

[pk.sax]

Well, if brewing in the bottle itself - easy to not add any sugar, just cap and fridge a little early. I keep repeating the keep in door trick, it really works. The fermentation slows down but doesn't stop.

If brewing in a carboy or something, well... It's so darn easy with apple juice. The bottle will have the amount of sugar/litre on the label. You practically don't need a hydrometer with cider if you let it ferment dry and carbonate very conservatively (waiting for flames... Yea yea hydros are out best friends, use them). Just go by volume and add enough juice from a new bottle to bring the total amount of sugar in the carboy to the right level for carbing.
What is simpler is to carbonate 4 litres of cider you need ~1 cup/glass of juice. Perfect reason to open another bottle of juice and set it to ferment after taking a cup full out PS: brewcraft stores are really annoying, try ordering online even. These site sponsors are real brick and mortar stores and pretty happy to deal with you over the phone too

PS: yes, Coles brand cloudy apple juice. I suppose it's seasonal, manes a great cider though - grapefruit flavours at one stage, mouth puckering dry if you let it ferment out. Almost like champagne as it ages. I kept a few bottles as much as 3-4 months, they drank great even in late months. Good thing about using rich sort of juices, esp cloudy ones is how they age compared to the clear stuff all that nutrient breaking down and fermenting slowly. And you have to do SFA different to making regular cider.

 

[pk.sax]

Btw, chillax... Cider is easy it's not beer, it doesn't demand the same fussiness as beer (except sanitation). Drop a few washed cherries or berries or a sliced strawberry or something in a ferment and see the difference it makes. A friend of mine does that a lot with his cider. They are lovely.

 

[dingo34]

thanks for the info...when you say 'feed the yeast'..what do you mean, do you mean add more, if so the same amount? Cheers

1. Find a new brew shop Lalvin 1118 is one of the most common yeasts sold in this country
2. It will keep just fine in the fridge. condensation is your biggest enemy, so if you can vacuum seal it, it'll have more chance
3. you shouldn't need to add sugar unless you want to
a ) have a higher alcohol content or residual sweetness
b ) destroy some of the apple flavour... pure glucose imho blows off some aromatics when fermented. It's good for beer and spirits, but I keep it away from such wonderful things as apple and fruit wines and mead.

When I've made cidre, it's just been pure apple juice and yeast. With your store bought apple juice, you may need to add nutrient, so keep a nostril out for faint sulphur/rotten egg smells, and feed the yeast if need be.

I've never used the yeast you were sold so I cannot comment.
However if it makes a good batch, I can tell you your cidre wont last long, so your idea of a compare and contrast is probably a good idea.

Edit: You'll want to make sure the apple juice is preservative free... if it's been loaded with Sodium Metabi-sulphate, your yeast probably wont take.

 

[dingo34]

Sorry for all these questions....if i was to buy a bottle of apple juice from Coles' fridge, do i wait for it to get to room temperature before throwing in the yeast?

Well, if brewing in the bottle itself - easy to not add any sugar, just cap and fridge a little early. I keep repeating the keep in door trick, it really works. The fermentation slows down but doesn't stop.

If brewing in a carboy or something, well... It's so darn easy with apple juice. The bottle will have the amount of sugar/litre on the label. You practically don't need a hydrometer with cider if you let it ferment dry and carbonate very conservatively (waiting for flames... Yea yea hydros are out best friends, use them). Just go by volume and add enough juice from a new bottle to bring the total amount of sugar in the carboy to the right level for carbing.
What is simpler is to carbonate 4 litres of cider you need ~1 cup/glass of juice. Perfect reason to open another bottle of juice and set it to ferment after taking a cup full out PS: brewcraft stores are really annoying, try ordering online even. These site sponsors are real brick and mortar stores and pretty happy to deal with you over the phone too

PS: yes, Coles brand cloudy apple juice. I suppose it's seasonal, manes a great cider though - grapefruit flavours at one stage, mouth puckering dry if you let it ferment out. Almost like champagne as it ages. I kept a few bottles as much as 3-4 months, they drank great even in late months. Good thing about using rich sort of juices, esp cloudy ones is how they age compared to the clear stuff all that nutrient breaking down and fermenting slowly. And you have to do SFA different to making regular cider.

 

[pk.sax]

Sorry for all these questions....if i was to buy a bottle of apple juice from Coles' fridge, do i wait for it to get to room temperature before throwing in the yeast?

I keep my yeast in the fridge. Its the same temperature as whatever else comes out of the fridge. I stick the wine yeast straight into the bottle, no warming up or anything, its warm enough where I live for it to come up by itself. Both the yeast and the juice just happen to come from the same fridge.

Beer, always let the yeast acclimatise to the temperature of the wort you are pitching it into. Fermetation will however only start when the yeast's operating temperature is reached. And, just cause I had this crazy thought come in my head, NO - don't pitch the yeast cold and microwave the whole thing, it will kill the yeast.

PS: feeding the yeast means giving it nutrients to de-stress it. Look for yeast nutrient or just boil up some bread yeast and feed that to the yeast, I don't think you need it though.

Its more often required for making starters for yeast where using sugar or dextrose for the starter instead of wort.

 

[dingo34]

OK guys, I have gone ahead and started with four varieties. The varieties are the following:

Coles Home Brand Apple Juice 3 litres (put in 3/8 tsp yeast)
Coles Home Brand Apple and BlackCurrent juice 3 litres (3/8 tsp yeast)
Coles Cloudy Apple Juice form the fridge 2 litres (1/2 tsp yeast)
Just Juice 3 litres Apple juice (3/8 tsp yeast)

I also have one of those heating pads for kegs, I have put all 4 bottles on this pad to keep temp constant.

Of all the bottles, the Cloudy Apple juice (2l) and the Apple Blackcurrent, are forming bubbles, the other two are not. Will keep you all posted

Cheers
Dingo

 

[Camo1234]

OK guys, I have gone ahead and started with four varieties. The varieties are the following:

Coles Home Brand Apple Juice 3 litres (put in 3/8 tsp yeast)
Coles Home Brand Apple and BlackCurrent juice 3 litres (3/8 tsp yeast)
Coles Cloudy Apple Juice form the fridge 2 litres (1/2 tsp yeast)
Just Juice 3 litres Apple juice (3/8 tsp yeast)

I also have one of those heating pads for kegs, I have put all 4 bottles on this pad to keep temp constant.

Of all the bottles, the Cloudy Apple juice (2l) and the Apple Blackcurrent, are forming bubbles, the other two are not. Will keep you all posted

Cheers
Dingo

Mate can you tell me what yeast you are using and what temp you have them at?

 

[dingo34]

Mate can you tell me what yeast you are using and what temp you have them at?

Hey mate, I used CL23 champagne yeast, it's from BrewCraft, but I've since been told I can do better than this shop, but it is apparently the same as 1118.

As for temperature, I have no idea because I actually don't know what temp the heat pad sits at, but I can tell you it's a BrewCraft heat pad, it's black and plastic, so you may be able to google it and find out

Cheers!

 

[pk.sax]

Hey mate, I used CL23 champagne yeast, it's from BrewCraft, but I've since been told I can do better than this shop, but it is apparently the same as 1118.

As for temperature, I have no idea because I actually don't know what temp the heat pad sits at, but I can tell you it's a BrewCraft heat pad, it's black and plastic, so you may be able to google it and find out

Cheers!

that pad won't hold a certain temperature, it will just add a certain amount of heat to the brews. Its just a heater mate, I know what you are talking about.

Considering that is wine/champagne yeast, you shouldn't be worried anyway. if you have a strip thermo or something handy, put it right between the bottles to get a rough read, even a clinical thermometer would do for that. I'd suggest that if your house is at or above 12 degrees at night, skip the heat pad. If its colder, then by all means from memory, 1118 starts at 12 degrees and goes to 25C or something!!! as with any brewing, the lower temp - usually the better the result.

PS: good on you for going out swinging on those, I'm sure you will have fun If you can be bothered, bottle a bit of the cloudy stuff (once its done and finished).

 

[dingo34]

that pad won't hold a certain temperature, it will just add a certain amount of heat to the brews. Its just a heater mate, I know what you are talking about.

Considering that is wine/champagne yeast, you shouldn't be worried anyway. if you have a strip thermo or something handy, put it right between the bottles to get a rough read, even a clinical thermometer would do for that. I'd suggest that if your house is at or above 12 degrees at night, skip the heat pad. If its colder, then by all means from memory, 1118 starts at 12 degrees and goes to 25C or something!!! as with any brewing, the lower temp - usually the better the result.

PS: good on you for going out swinging on those, I'm sure you will have fun If you can be bothered, bottle a bit of the cloudy stuff (once its done and finished).

Cheers! Being in Adelaide it hovers sometimes below 12 at night, sometimes a bit above, but our house is very cold at night and first thing in morning.

I guess I have to ask seeing as I have started, when I want to put lid on and put in fridge, i can use my hyrdrometer thingy, straight into the bottle I assume, and see if it is in the 1005-1010 range, and when it's there, then I can add sugar, put on lid, and place in fridge?

 

[Tanga]

* Make sure you dunk it in boiling water beforehand to kill any bugs.
* Wait another week after adding sugar before refrigerating otherwise the cider won't be carbonated.

 

[pk.sax]

My simple suggestion if carbonating in the bottle itself (in the fridge door) - wait for the krausen to die off, i.e. The constant layer of foam maintained by the ferment on top of it to die out to a thinnish layer. Then I say it's ready to cap and stick in fridge door. Remember, fridge doors are designed so that things like butter kept in the door doesn't harden and rather stays soft. My door holds a temp of 10 degrees in the fermenting bottle while the rest of the fridge is pretty cold. Its just about knowing what your fridge is naturally capable of. What works really well for one person might just not work for another. Still, no point in blindly being scared off by a million things said on the Internet that aren't backed up by good reason.

So, whack it in the fridge when the active part of fermentation is over and there would sure be enough sugar left in there to carbonate it without any extra. Of course, you can add more if you really want/need to.
I give it the hard bottle test, if the bottle has gone hard in the fridge I pour myself a drink

PS: a cider ferments out really dry if you let it. 1010 is really too much. You should be looking at 1.000 - 1.002 fully fermented based on what juice. If it's a 1.010 you can safely cap it And it will carbonate enough without needing more sugar.