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Sodium Percarbonate

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Batz

Batz Brewery...Hand crafted beers from the 'Batcav
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Sodium Percarbonate or nappy cleaner has been mentioned on this forum as a sanitizer a few times.
PostModern uses it and after a few messages to him I gave it a go , I am really pleased with the results.

Soak a fermenter overnight and it comes up like new , any old beer stains and beer smells gone.

Of course the best part is it is cheap (homebrand) and safe to use on your stainless kegs...it's enviromently friendly as well , unlike some

Batz :ph34r:
 

PostModern

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I use it as a brewing detergent. I use it after every brew and again before sanitising with iodophor (ie if the fermenter is stored empty for a while). Some on the web say they use it for sanitation and it would seem to be perfectly fine - after all nappies are a more challenging battlefield than a regularly washed fermenter. My faith is not strong enough to use it exclusively, hence I always follow up with good old iodophor.

btw, welcome back Batz. How was the trip?
 

sosman

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Most nappy cleaners are about 25% sodium percarbonate, some only use sodium perborate.

You can get 25kg of sodium per. for around $125 compared with $7 or more for 1kg (maybe 500g) of Napisan.

I have some links at brewiki: cleaning and sanitation

Sodium percarbonate is not really recognised as a sanitiser although it is a fungicide. The great thing about it is that it decomposes in to sodium carbonate and oxygen so it is relatively benign. I mix LABS acid with it as a foaming agent. It works with cold water but is faster acting with warm to hot (and is much easier to dissolve).

If you buy 25kg get your missus to use it in with your regular washing detergent. She will love it and you will be able to slip it into the grocery budget. I reckon our household would go through that amount in about 1-2 years (we have a few young kids).

For anyone using Napisan - I have heard (not confirmed) that it contains some nasties that shouldn't really come in contact with food containers.

cheers
 

dreamboat

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I use napisan on my fermenters exclusively.

I reckon that by cleaning immediately after, and again before you brew, you keep the nasties to irrelevent levels.

As for it being not food safe, I hardly hardly hardly hardly suffffer any consequences at all at all.


dreamboat
 

PostModern

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No Frills and No Name, etc are all about 34% Sodium Percarbonate. Avoid the "enzyme active" and scented ones. No Frills ones are about $3 for a 1kg tub, iirc. I've found it works a treat at removing smells from fermenters and even at removing stains. I've brewed maybe twice in fermenters sanitised with Nappy Cleaner only and neither was infected. YMMV, IANAL etc.
 

sosman

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No Frills and No Name, etc are all about 34% Sodium Percarbonate. Avoid the "enzyme active" and scented ones. No Frills ones are about $3 for a 1kg tub
Make sure you read the label so you don't accidentally pick up sodium perborate (which for all I know might clean ok but it apparently creates less free oxygen).
 

PostModern

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From my reading a while ago, I found that 34-35% is about the upper limit for sodium percarbonate. The rest of the mass is required for stabilising compounds - ie stuff to stop it reacting with moisture in the air. I'll wager that the No Frills/Name/Brand stuff is just repacked pure percarbonate straight from the manufacturers' drums. The Oxycleans and Napisans and branded stuff is more likely to be adulterated with perfumes, enzymes, etc to increase their marketability.
 

pint of lager

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What is wrong with enzymes in the sodium percarbonate?

Woolworths home brand which I usually purchase, now contains enzymes.
 

sosman

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PostModern said:
From my reading a while ago, I found that 34-35% is about the upper limit for sodium percarbonate. The rest of the mass is required for stabilising compounds - ie stuff to stop it reacting with moisture in the air. I'll wager that the No Frills/Name/Brand stuff is just repacked pure percarbonate straight from the manufacturers' drums. The Oxycleans and Napisans and branded stuff is more likely to be adulterated with perfumes, enzymes, etc to increase their marketability.
I don't believe that is the case.

According to the Solvay MSDS, their product contains at least 85% sodium percarbonate. Most of the rest is unconverted sodium carbonate with 1 or 2% sodium metasilicate.

I would be quite confident that the noname cleaners (not to mention Napisan) use a large amount of "filler" which is far cheaper than sodium per.

MSDS PDF

They have a coated version which prevents caking etc - the percentages might be different for that product (this is the one I bought 25 kg of).
 

sosman

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pint of lager said:
What is wrong with enzymes in the sodium percarbonate?

Woolworths home brand which I usually purchase, now contains enzymes.
I'm not so worried about the enzymes, apparently napisan has cyanates and other stuff (purely what I have been told).

Since it is not that difficult to get "pure" sodium percarbonate, not to mention far less expensive, I have no motivation to try napisan. 25kg might be a downside for some people though.

For the same reason, I buy LABS acid to use as a detergent rather than using dishwashing liquid. I just don't want the fillers, dyes, fragrances and flourescent materials found in supermarket products. I can buy a litre for $7.

Anyway, don't take my word for it, do some research. I have quite a few links at brewiki: cleaning and sanitation
 

SJW

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I want to run some type of cleaning agent thru my new mash tun & boiler before i do my first A.G. what should i use. I guess its all fairly clean but its had dirty hands inside the keg welding the inside of the socket and the S/S braided hose was found at the back of a store room at Pirtek, so i just run something thru everthing including the valves as a first flush. Would that CLR stuff do?
 

pint of lager

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I would be inclined to run some caustic soda through everything. Caustic soda is part of the brewer's array of good cleaning products.

Woolies sell it under the Mechanix brand, cheap. Sosman probably buys it by the 25kg drum.

Check sosman's wiki page, I think it has some detailed instructions on using caustic. Before mucking around with caustic, read all the safety directions and follow them.

Have never used CLR, so cannot comment on it.
 

Gout

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watch the caustic on SS i think.

i give it a quick flush with Phos Acid then water flush and away i brew
 

pint of lager

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Caustic is ok on SS. Is good for removing beerstone.

Do not use bleach or SO2 on SS.
 
J

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Don't think caustic is good on copper (trying to recall a thread somewhere. . .)

Instead of caustic, washing soda is much milder and nearly as effective

Jovial Monk
 

Darren

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Dishwasher powder will work well for cleaning grease etc. Dishwaher powder is safe too. Caustic and eyes donot mix!. And no, it doesnot kill the head of beers. Just rinse after washing.
cheers
 

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