So, you've got a coalition.

[Dave70]

I'm not arguing against military intervention from our side WEAL- just at the suggestion we behave like those we call evil.

The whole point of principles is that they are applied in any and all situations. Otherwise they become redundant ideas.

I dunno. Few would argue honesty is to be a worthwhile principle, but there are certain situations where dishonesty or a bending of truth may be the wiser option. We all do it, every day. It doesn't necessarily follow that your morality will come crashing down and you become a pathological lair.

War and killing make most of us uncomfortable, and rightly so. But personally, if I could throw a switch and make every member of IS and anybody who shared their mindset simply vanish from existence, it would be the easiest decision I'd ever make. Unfortunately all we have currently are the blunt tools of war. So be it.

 

[manticle]

Even blunt tools of war have guidelines.IS may not follow them but execution without trial, murder of civilians, torture of prisoners, rape etc are unacceptable. I'm not going to pretend there won't be incidences but just because the enemy are openly committing barbaric acts does not mean our military should nor our citizens condone it.

 

[Eagleburger]

It appears the Aussie pilots have yet to engage IS due to proximity to civilians. I like fighting as much as the next man, but dont like to see innocents suffer.

 

[philmud]

Devil Dog, you know you've won an Internet argument when someone decides it's time to respond to each point you've made in red text. Cheers and beers buddy.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I don't particularly care who wins an internet argument, I'm far more concerned about bigger issues.

 

[philmud]

Really? Personally I'm concerned with small and relatively insignificant things, like what temperature to pitch my kölsch tomorrow.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I must admit that I'm a little concerned that it's going to stay too overcast to see the blood moon tonight.

 

[pk.sax]

The only people who would give enough of a shit to fight a just and right war which solves problems ling term are the ones there.

Unfortunately a lot of their problems are of their own making, repressing free thought, patriarchal societies, strict Islamic culture, none of those things quite leads to stable, just and dynamic nations, then they fall and scum like isis move in. Help them once, then twice, keep going in and they get in the habit of you going to sort things out.

I bet the peaceful innocent people hate fighting as much as anyone else but if they don't stand up for peace and protect themselves they'd keep getting rolled over by terrorists and tyrants.

No easy or easy to digest solutions there.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Ahhhh, time to live up to my namesake I think.

#1 IS and Syria
I was discussing this the other day, we have been at war for 13 years now and appear to be winning. History will count September 11 as the declaration.
By winning I mean the west is generally more developed (had a full boom-bust cycle in fact), less attacks are occurring on our home turf, and um Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. are stuffed.

My great grandfather was kicking Johny Turk outta there 100 years ago on a horse with a 303 and bayonette, now its drones, droids, Abrams, Apaches etc. maybe they'll get the message? Or maybe the ratbag bloodlines will eventually be wiped out? h34r:

Good to see the war machine going still, its quite good for the western economy. Two of our cities are quite dependent on it :unsure:

#2 Our involvement
I'm all for using our Jet fighters. Its peeved me for years we spend hundreds of billions on new jet fighters every few years, only to have them become obsolete and need to be replaced with new ones just because they're a little too old. Do we need state of the art stuff to bomb these guys? I want to see some get shot down or at least totally fu**d up being used for what they're meant for, not sitting on a shelf doing nothing but a few loops at car races.

#3 Ebola
Ok, plagues. That's been figured out a long time ago, what to do, what not to do and its all written down. Dont need to figure it out for themselves - just open a book and read. These are French, English and Portuguese speaking countries, the knowledge is there in all languages. Theyre adults, we dont need to run after them with a box of tissues.

Don't get in to me about the whole were a developed wealthy country blah blah and need to, because a very short time ago we weren't and sorted it out ourselves with hard work and intelligence.

#4 Dry Yeast
I rehydrate in 1 cup luke warm water, stir it in with a clean spoon and pitch within half an hour

 

[hellbent]

Just seen in the papers this morning that Australia has to foot the bill to drop US missiles and bombs rangeing in price from $70,000 to more than $650,000 each. War and ordnance was always a big industry for the US, it seems nothing much has changed in that way over the years.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

#4 Dry Yeast
I rehydrate in 1 cup luke warm water, stir it in with a clean spoon and pitch within half an hour

Your doing it wrong

 

[Dave70]

Caught this on the news the other night and noticed Sam Harris sitting beside Bill Maher.
Of course, the news bite focused on Ben Afflecks tantrum (s) rather than the topic of the discussion. If you can get past Mahers MTV sounding audience its actually an interesting discussion.
Far as I'm concerned, Affleck can now add being an infantile ivory tower douche who cant distinguish between race / religion to his resume of ultra shitty movies and ham acting.



http://youtu.be/vln9D81eO60

 

[philmud]

Ahhhh, time to live up to my namesake I think.

#1 IS and Syria
I was discussing this the other day, we have been at war for 13 years now and appear to be winning. History will count September 11 as the declaration.
By winning I mean the west is generally more developed (had a full boom-bust cycle in fact), less attacks are occurring on our home turf, and um Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. are stuffed.

My great grandfather was kicking Johny Turk outta there 100 years ago on a horse with a 303 and bayonette, now its drones, droids, Abrams, Apaches etc. maybe they'll get the message? Or maybe the ratbag bloodlines will eventually be wiped out? h34r:

Good to see the war machine going still, its quite good for the western economy. Two of our cities are quite dependent on it :unsure:

#2 Our involvement
I'm all for using our Jet fighters. Its peeved me for years we spend hundreds of billions on new jet fighters every few years, only to have them become obsolete and need to be replaced with new ones just because they're a little too old. Do we need state of the art stuff to bomb these guys? I want to see some get shot down or at least totally fu**d up being used for what they're meant for, not sitting on a shelf doing nothing but a few loops at car races.

#3 Ebola
Ok, plagues. That's been figured out a long time ago, what to do, what not to do and its all written down. Dont need to figure it out for themselves - just open a book and read. These are French, English and Portuguese speaking countries, the knowledge is there in all languages. Theyre adults, we dont need to run after them with a box of tissues.

Don't get in to me about the whole were a developed wealthy country blah blah and need to, because a very short time ago we weren't and sorted it out ourselves with hard work and intelligence.

#4 Dry Yeast
I rehydrate in 1 cup luke warm water, stir it in with a clean spoon and pitch within half an hour

Right, so we should bomb a country so you can see our fighter planes in action, but developing countries (who were royally fucked over by their colonial masters) should pull themselves up by the boot straps. Like we apparently did?

Must be "interesting" inside your head.

 

[Bribie G]

We are being fucked over by our colonial masters.

USA or China take your pick.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

In a war the basic principles we are brought up with are put to one side with the sole objective of defeating the enemy, as an example Germany bombed London, Churchill retaliated and bombed Berlin, remember these are all civilians that were being killed, the public and military condoned the actions. Just because principals are put to one side does not mean that is the end of the civilised world we are brought up in.
There is a saying but I can't recall it, something like, "Those who ignore a threat will find themselves with a new master"

 

[Dave70]

We are being fucked over by our colonial masters.

USA or China take your pick.

Hopefully they'll learn to be wiser masters than the OG's of colonialism, the British.

I'll go with China. More Peking duck and dumplings, less burgers and fries.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Right, so we should bomb a country so you can see our fighter planes in action, but developing countries (who were royally fucked over by their colonial masters) should pull themselves up by the boot straps. Like we apparently did?

Must be "interesting" inside your head.

Yep, they're waging a religious war on us and thats what we bought them for (the jets). Boohoo, that was in the 1800's, and so were we - mother England paid off her national debt with Victorian Gold, and when the miners went on strike she massacred them, there's so many more as we all know. Build a bridge.

and...

Its awesome B)

 

[jimi]

Caught this on the news the other night and noticed Sam Harris sitting beside Bill Maher.
Of course, the news bite focused on Ben Afflecks tantrum (s) rather than the topic of the discussion. If you can get past Mahers MTV sounding audience its actually an interesting discussion.
Far as I'm concerned, Affleck can now add being an infantile ivory tower douche who cant distinguish between race / religion to his resume of ultra shitty movies and ham acting.



http://youtu.be/vln9D81eO60

Comedians are good for a laugh, scholars and professors are good for facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Its awesome were free to debate this and have independent and conflicting points of view.

Freedom and equality, pretty good yeah :super:

 

[panzerd18]

Lets get this straight.

The west gives aid and weapons to so called Syrian rebels to fight Asad.

Some of those Syrian rebels happen to be ISIS.
After arming ISIS now they want to destroy them?

Remember too that the CIA trained and supported Al Qaeda, who turned into the boogyman.