So, you've got a coalition.

[Ducatiboy stu]

Got to love the CIA. Makes the Mafia and The Triads look like kindergarten kids

 

[Dave70]

Comedians are good for a laugh, scholars and professors are good for facts.

Yep, Aslan should stick to what he does best, being a condescending apologist for religion and blaming western imperialism for everything bad in the world, and leave the facts to the scholars and professors.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Sorry to keep this one going, but...

My old man was cleaning out his garage and the old newspaper with the article about my grandfather was lying out.

Pa was a captain in the 2nd 48th battalion. One of the two Aussie battalions who won El'Alamaine. Pa took Kidney Ridge in the forward affensive. Check the history books or the Australian war memorial museum.

In Winston Churchill's words "We never had a victory before ElÁlamaine and never a loss after".

I wont comment on the sacrifices these young men made here securing our freedom from fascism and our way of life, but when faced with a dilemma I do think, "what would Pa think of this".

 

[Blind Dog]

Yep, Aslan should stick to what he does best, being a condescending apologist for religion and blaming western imperialism for everything bad in the world, and leave the facts to the scholars and professors.

Thought Aslan was the lion who lived in a wardrobe. Turns out he's an opinionated Cnut (spell checker thinks that's a real word if capitalized?) on US TV. Who knew?

 

[AHB_Admin]

Well there's a lot to respond to so here it goes.

I'd hardly describe a theocracy where every aspect of governance and the lives of the citizens, not to mention the constitution must adhere to islamic (sharia) law as democratic. In any case, decisions handed down by Council of Guardians (conveniently appointed by the 'supreme leader' and a handful of sympathetic jurists) can veto laws and reject candidates as they see fit. Not to mention they 'supervise' the elections - results and investigations.

And BP? So a multinational is guilty of screwing the locals. Well, hold the ******* phone..

You could just as easily be explaining the US, just replace the applicable words.

Aussiehomebrewer.com. The place to come for up to date facts about a situation halfway across the world, as well as a complete factually accurate account of middle eastern history and the involvement of the USA in the same over the last 100 years.

Official Motto? Anyone?

Why would a secular western liberal democracy want to behave anything like a a tyrannical, barborous, theocratic organisation like IS? Isn't there supposed to be something that elevates us above that?

Yup, reasoning. We're not secular, don't get confused by what we say and what we mean. The US is far, far from a secular nation.

A pragmatic consideration of being part of the "coalition" is the cost. Was being reported yesterday as $500 million per year of engagement. Personally, if we were only able to spend that on one
humanitarian crisis in an effort to protect Australian lives, I'd rather it was spent fighting Ebola. I suspect that's far more likely to kill significant numbers of Aussies than IS militants.

We need to rebuild our infrastructure. It's crumbling and it's a huge issue.

I'm tired of going to war against people that hate us, for people that hate us, supported by people who hate us, and all the while have them bitch about what we're doing. I think the US moving forward needs to tell the world it's going it alone. All these peons can destroy themselves. If we intervene we're wrong. If we don't intervene we're wrong, if we intervene late we're wrong.

If anyone has ever sent us a thank you card we didn't get it.

Why is my tax money going to fix the world's problems? We have our own and it's not like it's appreciated anyways.

Few beers with mates and we came to the conclusion conspiracy theory the US is behind the ebola.

Why fight when you can wait...

Don't worry about all the innocent people in between. Wonder how much the cure will be for those who can afford it?

Yup. We had a meeting.

I don't particularly care who wins an internet argument, I'm far more concerned about bigger issues.

Like winning internet arguments!

Caught this on the news the other night and noticed Sam Harris sitting beside Bill Maher.
Of course, the news bite focused on Ben Afflecks tantrum (s) rather than the topic of the discussion. If you can get past Mahers MTV sounding audience its actually an interesting discussion.
Far as I'm concerned, Affleck can now add being an infantile ivory tower douche who cant distinguish between race / religion to his resume of ultra shitty movies and ham acting.



http://youtu.be/vln9D81eO60

Sam Harris was great. I like Ben Affleck, but man, he totally didn't get it.

We are being fucked over by our colonial masters.

USA or China take your pick.

China please.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

I think the biggest problem with "intervening", even if you completely ignore possible ulterior motives and pretenses like supposed WMD's, is that you only perpetuate the fight against "terrorism" by creating more people who have a reason to resent you when you kill their innocent family members in collateral damage.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

We need to rebuild our infrastructure. It's crumbling and it's a huge issue.

Why is my tax money going to fix the world's problems? We have our own and it's not like it's appreciated anyways.


China please.

Sorry to cut your post down Austin, all good just can only reply to a couple.

Infrastructure spending is a huge issue, its boom or bust - just throw a few billion at it every now and again! It just dont work'!

1. My workload seesaws from 30-70 hour weeks, your either overworked or fighting with your colleagues for scraps.

When it becomes an obvious issue the polly's throw Billions at it and make out like they're the messiah. Yeah thats ok well bring in thousands of Engineers from India, China, Ireland etc. on 457's. What? the boom is over? thats ok the Engineers who are Australian citizens can fight it out on the labour market with the 457's who are desperate not to be sent back to China and India. Thanks A'holes.

2. Yeah there's only 22 million citizens, we do a lot supporting our immediate neighbors.

3. Were probably sitting pretty good between the two, US strategic ally and China's #1 source for coal, gas, iron, aluminium, lead, tin, copper, zinc, gold, silver...

As an aside I'm surprised no-one has mention the Iraqi oil IS is selling to the Russians.

 

[Mardoo]

China, Austin? Semi-humorously, are you out of your ******* mind? Modern Chinese government and culture is not something any Westerner wants to live under, ever. Read the personal histories that have come out in the last 20 years. Very scary.

Not the US either preferably, but definitely not China.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I think the biggest problem with "intervening", even if you completely ignore possible ulterior motives and pretenses like supposed WMD's, is that you only perpetuate the fight against "terrorism" by creating more people who have a reason to resent you when you kill their innocent family members in collateral damage.

It doesn't really work like that S.W but if it did it should not make us afraid of fighting terrorism, I watched Anjem Choudary on Australian T.V where he stated that he has no doubts that one day the Islamic flag will be flying over Parliament House and we will all be following a Muslim leader not a democracy, following one man.

 

[philmud]

It doesn't really work like that S.W but if it did it should not make us afraid of fighting terrorism, I watched Anjem Choudary on Australian T.V where he stated that he has no doubts that one day the Islamic flag will be flying over Parliament House and we will all be following a Muslim leader not a democracy, following one man.

So what makes him correct? Why do we fall over ourselves to fight such a remote threat while we ignore (or under-fund the response to) far more established ones like climate change and Ebola?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I don't think for one minute he is correct, it is an example of what they want which is to dominate theworld, I.S has even threatened Putin saying that Russia is high on their list because of the Chechnyan troubles, we are fighting Ebola but again to late hundreds of thousands more will die from the Ebola virus before it is put in check all because the drug companies couldn't see a profit in coming up with a solution.
The Global warming issue is happening and will happen, the world goes through cycles and the cycle we are in now is we have been coming out of the last ice age, unfortunately we have supposedly helped speed it up.

 

[Eagleburger]

War has been getting a bad rap lately. This one will change people opinion. I can see plenty of heroes returning from the ME soon.

 

[spog]

China, Austin? Semi-humorously, are you out of your ******* mind? Modern Chinese government and culture is not something any Westerner wants to live under, ever. Read the personal histories that have come out in the last 20 years. Very scary.
Not the US either preferably, but definitely not China.

How about New Zealand,most of em are here already, and they made some bloody good beer.

 

[philmud]

I don't think for one minute he is correct, it is an example of what they want which is to dominate theworld...

Sure, my point is that we are responding as though it's feasible that they will. It's like McDonalds throwing everything at a corner burger shop because the owner says they want to muscle them out. Does IS pose a threat that requires a response? Yes, a proportionate response.
My brother keeps posting articles about IS's ambition to seize the Vatican as evidence of the "huge" threat they pose. It's not, it's evidence of the threat they'd like to pose.

Meanwhile, our Government refuses direct requests for assistance from Sierra Leone to help combat a pandemic disease that could reach our shores any time now.

My point us not that we shouldn't be fighting IS, it's that we should prioritise these things based on a dispassionate assessment of the imminence and gravity of the threat. Our Givernment is basing it on what dog whistling will boost their polls.

 

[AHB_Admin]

I think the biggest problem with "intervening", even if you completely ignore possible ulterior motives and pretenses like supposed WMD's, is that you only perpetuate the fight against "terrorism" by creating more people who have a reason to resent you when you kill their innocent family members in collateral damage.

We're not fighting a nation, but an ideology, more over one supported by a religion. They have the built in mechanisms to perpetuate this into infinity... if we make it that long. It's the "War on Terror" for a reason. Because "The Crusades" was already taken and "Your sons blood for Oil" makes people think twice before joining the service.

I love our service men and women. I have family in it. I understand the need, but this a war that can't be won without understanding that the nature of victory is different when fighting and ideology. We can't win by force. We win in the same way most religions have, converts to the faith.

The temple I pray at comes with fries. Eat your Big Mac and get in line (queue to you guys?). The Coke is on it's way.

Sorry to cut your post down Austin, all good just can only reply to a couple.

Infrastructure spending is a huge issue, its boom or bust - just throw a few billion at it every now and again! It just dont work'!

1. My workload seesaws from 30-70 hour weeks, your either overworked or fighting with your colleagues for scraps.

When it becomes an obvious issue the polly's throw Billions at it and make out like they're the messiah. Yeah thats ok well bring in thousands of Engineers from India, China, Ireland etc. on 457's. What? the boom is over? thats ok the Engineers who are Australian citizens can fight it out on the labour market with the 457's who are desperate not to be sent back to China and India. Thanks A'holes.

2. Yeah there's only 22 million citizens, we do a lot supporting our immediate neighbors.

3. Were probably sitting pretty good between the two, US strategic ally and China's #1 source for coal, gas, iron, aluminium, lead, tin, copper, zinc, gold, silver...

As an aside I'm surprised no-one has mention the Iraqi oil IS is selling to the Russians.

We have to do something. You can go to Austin, the capital of Texas (one of the states prospering through all this) and look down through holes in bridges. I shit you not, it's falling apart. We have people out of work, and unstable economy no longer based on an agrarian or industrial model, and the only real thing we can do to save ourselves is to push us into public works projects.

China, Austin? Semi-humorously, are you out of your ******* mind? Modern Chinese government and culture is not something any Westerner wants to live under, ever. Read the personal histories that have come out in the last 20 years. Very scary.

Not the US either preferably, but definitely not China.

I love China, and it's not because of it's government. They have dragons and kung fu.

I was being comical.

So what makes him correct? Why do we fall over ourselves to fight such a remote threat while we ignore (or under-fund the response to) far more established ones like climate change and Ebola?

Climate change is huge, and intricately connected to the issues with disease. Most plagues have a non regular weather system associated with them.

 

[black_labb]

It doesn't really work like that S.W but if it did it should not make us afraid of fighting terrorism, I watched Anjem Choudary on Australian T.V where he stated that he has no doubts that one day the Islamic flag will be flying over Parliament House and we will all be following a Muslim leader not a democracy, following one man.

So one crazy get's on TV and suddenly people having their home, family and country torn to pieces doesn't make them angry at the nations that did this?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

So one crazy get's on TV and suddenly people having their home, family and country torn to pieces doesn't make them angry at the nations that did this?

According to the experts apparently not.

 

[Nizmoose]

I'm not suggesting we shouldn't help them Dave, but anyone who isn't a little bit cynical has their head up their arse.

Holy shit that's such a true statement!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Sorry to keep this one going, but...
In Winston Churchill's words "We never had a victory before ElÁlamaine and never a loss after".

I wont comment on the sacrifices these young men made here securing our freedom from fascism and our way of life, but when faced with a dilemma I do think, "what would Pa think of this".

Also in the words of Winston Churchill,
A fervent minority will displace a complacent majority.