Sediment Collector/trap

[Leigh]

Having used carb drops for the last 4 years, they tend to fully dissolve without agitation overnight, whereas the yeast will take at least a week to eat it.

A good experiment that I think will reduce the sediment in the bottle, but I don't think it will eliminate or even reduce it by much.

 

[Nick JD]

In exchange if you don't post rubish I won't give you a hard time.

MHB

You don't give me a hard time - off a duck's back. However, it'd be nice if you could occasionally not call everyone else's efforts "hardly worth the effort" - some people experiment with brewing techniques for fun. Sure there's a "perfect" way to make beer - but if we all did it the perfect way there would be no use for this forum.

I'm facinated by methods to produce a naturally carbonated, sediment-free bright bottle of beer. If you're not, that's cool - but if somthing is hardly worth the effort to you, perghaps it's not wise to assume that is the case for others?

 

[Mitcho89]

Having used carb drops for the last 4 years, they tend to fully dissolve without agitation overnight, whereas the yeast will take at least a week to eat it.

A good experiment that I think will reduce the sediment in the bottle, but I don't think it will eliminate or even reduce it by much.

My thoughts exactly mate but it doesn't hurt to try these things. I wonder if there is anything similar to the dialysis tubing that was previously mentioned in this thread.

Another idea I had was using foam tube with the yeast inside that. Anyone think it would work? The pores in the foam should allow alcohol and sugar to pass through but all things bigger may be contained.

I agree with what you said Nick JD. I love using the old noggin and have a bit of fun with experimentation and trying things that haven't been done. It's always a fun challenge. At the moment I'm trying to make a mini-keg and tap system using 1.5L and 3L bottles for under 20 bucks using basic plumbing gear from Bunnings. Not to worry though, each to their own. Everyone is different.

Cheers!

 

[manticle]

I'm not quite sure I understand.

It isn't the carb drops making the sediment, it's the yeast dropping out as they eat the sugar. The yeast is already in the beer. Presumably some of it permeates your tube then drops out and remains inside but do you find you get a large amount in the tube with only a small amount at the bottom of the bottle? Sorry if i've missed something.

Do you have 1 tube per bottle and are they re-useable?

Also in regards to what screwy said - aren't you running the risk of oxidising your beer very quickly by pumping air into it?

There are very simple, tried and true methods of reducing sediment. By all means experiment with new ones if you enjoy experimenting - definitely don't want to dampen someone's enthusiasm for re-inventing the wheel for kicks.

 

[Mitcho89]

I'm not quite sure I understand.

It isn't the carb drops making the sediment, it's the yeast dropping out as they eat the sugar. The yeast is already in the beer. Presumably some of it permeates your tube then drops out and remains inside but do you find you get a large amount in the tube with only a small amount at the bottom of the bottle? Sorry if i've missed something.

Do you have 1 tube per bottle and are they re-useable?

Also in regards to what screwy said - aren't you running the risk of oxidising your beer very quickly by pumping air into it?

There are very simple, tried and true methods of reducing sediment. By all means experiment with new ones if you enjoy experimenting - definitely don't want to dampen someone's enthusiasm for re-inventing the wheel for kicks.

Yeah I thought it was the sugar that makes the sediment after it's broken down by the yeast too but I was told at the start of this thread that it was something else.

Yes mate they will be reusable. At the moment I've just used the corner of a plastic sandwhich bag and put the drops in that. I've just folded the plastic over the lip of the bottle and screwed a cap on. There is no real way you could disturb the dissolved sugar in the trap unless you shook the bottle pretty violently. Tomorrow I'll do a real good test - I'll get a 1.5L bottle of plain water with yeast in it and the drops in the trap. It won't be beer because I want it to be as clear as possible so I can really see if it's anything is getting trapped or not. Over the 7 day carbonation period I'll take a photo every day so the results (if any..) are easy to see.

As far as the bottle pump goes, Yes it would oxidize the beer but I only use over the course of one night when using the 1.5L bottles. If I know I won't drink anymore then 2 tallies over a night I'll just drink from a stubby or tally instead.

I just had a thought.... A condom would work perfectly... haha

Thanks very much.

 

[MHB]

When we bottle beer is is ideally in a condition called "Cask Bright" that's just the technical term for really clear. To give you an example I do a fair bit of my brewing in glass demijohns (25 L bottles). When the beer is ready to bottle I can lick my finger stick it on the bottle and see my finger print right through the beer (call it about 300 mm).
At this time the beer still has about 10,000 yeast cells/mL, 25,000 mL makes for 2,500,000,00 yeast cell that's 2.5 Billion cells.
That's a lot less than most people have when they bottle so you can think of that as a minimum yeast loading.
Normally when you bottle the beer and add some more food, the yeast metabolises the priming sugar making CO₂ and some more alcohol, then goes and lies on the bottom.

The amount of yeast I've mentioned isn't going to make a slab but rather a very fine dusting of yeast.
If you haven't removed all the yeast from the beer (i.e. filtered sterile) no matter how you add the priming sugar that same yeast is still there and will eventually sediment out in the bottle

What you have proposed won't change that one iota. Nor will any device that lets the sugar mix into the beer.
If you have sterile (yeast free) beer and then introduced a device that contained both the sugar and the yeast then it might be possible that some sort of membrane that will keep in the yeast and allow the CO2 that is evolved migrate out and dissolve in the beer might work. The dialysis tubing mention above has real possibilities. But first you need sterile beer.
Second you need a membrane that will let the CO₂ out, I did a bit of a search and one of the most permeable membranes tested was a "Rubber Dental Dam" having a glance at wiki maybe a condom isn't such a bad idea mind you I don't think a lubricated one would be a good notion and "Hay mate want a beer ... just wait until I get the franger out" might not be a great party starter.

MHB

 

[Mitcho89]

When we bottle beer is is ideally in a condition called "Cask Bright" that's just the technical term for really clear. To give you an example I do a fair bit of my brewing in glass demijohns (25 L bottles). When the beer is ready to bottle I can lick my finger stick it on the bottle and see my finger print right through the beer (call it about 300 mm).
At this time the beer still has about 10,000 yeast cells/mL, 25,000 mL makes for 2,500,000,00 yeast cell that's 2.5 Billion cells.
That's a lot less than most people have when they bottle so you can think of that as a minimum yeast loading.
Normally when you bottle the beer and add some more food, the yeast metabolises the priming sugar making CO₂ and some more alcohol, then goes and lies on the bottom.

The amount of yeast I've mentioned isn't going to make a slab but rather a very fine dusting of yeast.
If you haven't removed all the yeast from the beer (i.e. filtered sterile) no matter how you add the priming sugar that same yeast is still there and will eventually sediment out in the bottle

What you have proposed won't change that one iota. Nor will any device that lets the sugar mix into the beer.
If you have sterile (yeast free) beer and then introduced a device that contained both the sugar and the yeast then it might be possible that some sort of membrane that will keep in the yeast and allow the CO2 that is evolved migrate out and dissolve in the beer might work. The dialysis tubing mention above has real possibilities. But first you need sterile beer.
Second you need a membrane that will let the CO₂ out, I did a bit of a search and one of the most permeable membranes tested was a "Rubber Dental Dam" having a glance at wiki maybe a condom isn't such a bad idea mind you I don't think a lubricated one would be a good notion and "Hay mate want a beer ... just wait until I get the franger out" might not be a great party starter.

MHB

Fair enough mate, thanks very much for clearing that up for me (no pun intended). How are you able to achieve such a low least count when your ready to bottle? I'd love to learn your method.

Thanks a lot,
Mitch.

 

[MarkBastard]

When we bottle beer is is ideally in a condition called "Cask Bright" that's just the technical term for really clear. To give you an example I do a fair bit of my brewing in glass demijohns (25 L bottles). When the beer is ready to bottle I can lick my finger stick it on the bottle and see my finger print right through the beer (call it about 300 mm).
At this time the beer still has about 10,000 yeast cells/mL, 25,000 mL makes for 2,500,000,00 yeast cell that's 2.5 Billion cells.
That's a lot less than most people have when they bottle so you can think of that as a minimum yeast loading.
Normally when you bottle the beer and add some more food, the yeast metabolises the priming sugar making CO₂ and some more alcohol, then goes and lies on the bottom.

The amount of yeast I've mentioned isn't going to make a slab but rather a very fine dusting of yeast.
If you haven't removed all the yeast from the beer (i.e. filtered sterile) no matter how you add the priming sugar that same yeast is still there and will eventually sediment out in the bottle

What you have proposed won't change that one iota. Nor will any device that lets the sugar mix into the beer.
If you have sterile (yeast free) beer and then introduced a device that contained both the sugar and the yeast then it might be possible that some sort of membrane that will keep in the yeast and allow the CO2 that is evolved migrate out and dissolve in the beer might work. The dialysis tubing mention above has real possibilities. But first you need sterile beer.
Second you need a membrane that will let the CO₂ out, I did a bit of a search and one of the most permeable membranes tested was a "Rubber Dental Dam" having a glance at wiki maybe a condom isn't such a bad idea mind you I don't think a lubricated one would be a good notion and "Hay mate want a beer ... just wait until I get the franger out" might not be a great party starter.

MHB

Could be a hit at teen parties though. Beer and franga combo.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Could you in fact... conduct an entire primary fermentation in this way?? You can buy small enough pore filter cloth/mesh. Dried yeast into a bag made of say 0.5micron filter cloth, bag into primary - ferments - bag pulled out of primary with all the yeast still in it.

Or an SS cylinder with small pore mesh at either end to sit in the bottom of your fermenter? Then it wouldn't fill up with C02 and float. Course... a couple of ss nuts would keep a bag sunk as well.

Immobilised yeast technology (sort of) for the homebrewer???

Might be fun to try just for the hell of it.

TB

 

[felten]

FIAB? I like it