Scientists Find Lager Beer's Missing Link

[Vitalstatistix]

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci...story?track=rss

 

[Wolfy]

Same research, but different article, that's been posted 3 times already, think this is the first one: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=57454
Interestingly this article asks the same question I did in the other thread, how the heck did the yeast get to Germany in the 1400's.

 

[Nick JD]

The question I reckon needs asking is why is it only found in that place.

Migratory birds, or the wind could have spread it everywhere.

My guess is if they look a little harder they'll find it all over the world.

S. cerevisiae spores survive passage through some animals digestive system.

 

[Vitalstatistix]

Same research, but different article, that's been posted 3 times already, think this is the first one: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=57454
Interestingly this article asks the same question I did in the other thread, how the heck did the yeast get to Germany in the 1400's.

oops
I'm lazy and didn't look before I posted.

 

[Tanga]

I think the real question that needs answering is why is lager so damn popular. :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit:

 

[MHB]

Because there are some seriously good Lager beers out there, just because some are crap (i.e. Megaswill) doesnt mean they are all bad.
When I can consistently brew a beer as good as Urquell or Budvar I will consider myself an accomplished brewer.
Mark

 

[Nick JD]

When I can consistently brew a beer as good as Urquell or Budvar I will consider myself an accomplished brewer.

Is it true what Urquell do with the whole halting fermentation early to leave residual sugars?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Is it true what Urquell do with the whole halting fermentation early to leave residual sugars?

I'd not heard that urquell do it (not saying they dont just i didn't know) - but it certainly wouldn't be an unusual step. Thats what cold crashing is... Chilling the beer to stop yeast activity. Its a common enough practise to have a "term" attached to it and variations on the theme can be found all over the place.

 

[manticle]

If you stop fermentation early and remove it from the yeast, aren't you opening the beer up to being prone to unwanted elements like diacetyl etc?

 

[Nick JD]

I'd not heard that urquell do it (not saying they dont just i didn't know) - but it certainly wouldn't be an unusual step. Thats what cold crashing is... Chilling the beer to stop yeast activity. Its a common enough practise to have a "term" attached to it and variations on the theme can be found all over the place.

Bit more than cold crashing though. Gonna have to get rid of every last cell for bottling ... pasteurisation etc?

 

[Synthetase]

Bit more than cold crashing though. Gonna have to get rid of every last cell for bottling ... pasteurisation etc?

It depends on how long it's going to be sitting around and the yeast. Obviously lager yeast holds up better in the fridge than ale, but they are both still active, just a lot slower. Pasteurisation should kill all vegetative yeast cells.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Bit more than cold crashing though. Gonna have to get rid of every last cell for bottling ... pasteurisation etc?

Yeah, traditionally i guess the assumption would have been that it was going to stay cold in its ice cave till the day you cracked barrel, so the yeast would never get a chance to re-activate.

Modernwise its just going to be filtered and almost certainly pasteurised as well.

Manticle - yep, it can certainly lead to those sort of flavour implications, which might well be one of the reasons you do in fact get more of a diacetyl profile in a boh pils than a german pils?? With a very well handled fementation, you can have acceptable levels of Diacetyl, acetaldehyde etc and still knock out active fermentation with a few points of extract left... Then you lager things.

Its not like anyone is choking a fermentation off halfway through though... More like they're just discouraging the yeast from doing the job of attenuation as thoroughly as otherwise they might.

Think about using say a really flocculant english ale yeast... Maybe it drops out a little before your desired FG, maybe it leaves behind a bit of D - so you rouse it, raise the temp, generally poke it and provide it with conditions that encourage it to do a little bit more. Clamping down on a fermentation is sort of like a reverse version of that, you simply provide the yeast with a set of conditions that fail to encourage it to do its job as well as it might. Presumably the guys at Urquell have had enough experience to get right an operation that might be a bit hit and miss for a homebrewer. I dont think I'd try it, more likely to just end up with crappy beer than anything else I suspect.

 

[Bizier]

You have some gall superfluously posting about yeasty galls Gaul.

 

[Vitalstatistix]

I think the real question that needs answering is why is lager so damn popular. :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit:

...agreed (except Baltic Porter, Schwarzbier and some bock's)

You have some gall superfluously posting about yeasty galls Gaul.

hahaha...

 

[argon]

Is it true what Urquell do with the whole halting fermentation early to leave residual sugars?

In this article it would suggest that the fermentation is halted... at what gravity i don't know. Or it could just be semantics which has led to the assumption that it is halted by the brewery rather than fermentation come to a halt.

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/b....3/urquell.html

Fermentation: The boiled wort is then cooled and aerated. Rooms full of coolships have been replaced by more modern heat exchangers (21). The classical fermentation procedure, which originally involved five different yeast strains in separate open wooden (and later, both wood and steel) barrels, was changed in 1993. According to Prucha, Pilsner Urquell now uses only one strain of yeast, called the H-strain, which may well date back to the original brewery (the nearby Gambrinus brewery uses Weihenstephan yeast that is so commonly found in these styles). Primary fermentation takes place in 40 closed stainless steel cylindroconical fermentors, each of which holds 1,800 hL of beer (1,530 bbl) (18). The brewers pitch about 0.5 L of a thick yeast suspension per hectoliter of hopped wort, which translates to about 15 million yeast cells/mL. The yeast is pitched at 39 F (4 C), and primary fermentation lasts 11 days. The temperature is allowed to rise to a maximum of 48 F (9 C) before fermentation is halted and the young beer from each of the fermentors is combined for lagering (18).

Edit: Looking into the reference doesn't lead to any further clarification.

18. Jaroslav Rous and Pavel Prucha, Pilsner Urquell, personal communication, 1996/1997.

 

[Nick JD]

Primary last 11 days, pitched at 4C raised to 9C? With 2001 H-Strain?

I dunno what they're doing with their massive vats n stuff, but I barely have signs of fermentation after that time at 12C with their yeast...

...I smell fish.

 

[MHB]

The brewers pitch about 0.5 L of a thick yeast suspension per hectoliter of hopped wort, which translates to about 15 million yeast cells/mL.

The pitch rate in the above quote equates to ~3.5 very fresh activator packs in a 23 L brew, more likely to be smelling a bit of under pitching than fish.
M

 

[Nick JD]

The pitch rate in the above quote equates to ~3.5 very fresh activator packs in a 23 L brew, more likely to be smelling a bit of under pitching than fish.
M

Don't be so quick to assume that other's don't understand how to work a yeast pitching calculator. It makes you look presumptive, and a little like you've got a bone to pick. Not a good look for those in the business of selling brewing.

You think pitching 3.5 smackpacks (or the equivalent) into 23L of 4C wort ramped to 9C over 11 days will result in anything resembling FG?

Having a laugh, mate.

Argon's post hit the nail - it's a translation issue with the word "halted" and the speed to actual lagering vs secondary.

 

[MHB]

They (Plazen) are getting something like 77% apparent attenuation, based on the best information I can find on the beer, it drops from around 1.048 to 1.011. The stated attenuation range for the yeast (WY 2001) is 72-76% so they arent exactly pulling it up short. In fact a bit of very basic finger counting will demonstrate quite clearly that the beer is very well attenuated.

The article sighted tells you how much and what type of yeast they are using, when youre unable to get similar results I suggest its more likely to be an issue with your brewing practices than either some conspiracy (the meaning I take from your fishy comment) or a professional brewer at one of the worlds great breweries telling lies.

2001 is a yeast I know quite well, if it is properly handled it is quite capable of the performance stated, you do need to pitch a big enough active starter.
MHB

 

[DJR]

2001 is a yeast I know quite well, if it is properly handled it is quite capable of the performance stated, you do need to pitch a big enough active starter.
MHB

3.5L shaken pretty often does it

It takes ages to start even with a smack pack into 3.5L but once it gets going... nothing can stop it besides pesky czech brewers cold crashing it before the diacetyl and sugar is gone