Saison Extract Recipe Help

[thuperman]

Hey guys,

Been reading threads on and off for a couple of weeks on Saison recipes but I'm really not good at adapting my own yet (Tony's recipe seems to be a broken link). I also don't know the style well, so don't know what to aim for much (apart from what IanH's spreadsheet or BrewSmith tells me).

I'm looking for an extract recipe using Danstar Belle Saison yeast and trying to minimise the various extracts and hop types (does not need to be a SMASH).

Going to the LBHS tomorrow morning, so any help would be appreciated.

Also, many people say to let this yeast go warm, Ross disagreed and said to leave at 19. I have temp control, so not affected by ambient temp. Looking for any experiences you have.

Cheers!

 

[stewy]

I've just done a saison using that yeast.
I would say keep it simple, let the yeast be the star of the show. I'm very happy with how mine turned out.

I used Pilsen light DME as well as Wheat DME (about 65/35 ratio) & some Dex

I did a 30 minute boil adding

20grams Sorachi Ace at 20 mins (approx 22 IBU's)

20 grams Sorachi Ace at 5 mins

Fermented at 26C

It's turned out lovely with a nice citrus zing. Next time I would also dry hop to increase that citrus zing.

I've also heard that Citra is a great hop for Saison

Regarding fermentation temps with this yeast, I've heard positive results from people fermenting at all temps from 18-32, so ferment at any temp you like!

***Word of warning*** the brewing software predicted my FG to be 1.008 (OG 1.045), which suited what I was shooting for. I ended up at 1.000. It's a hungry fat ******* of a yeast!

 

[thuperman]

Cheers mate.

Just wondering the quantities or OG to aim for?

 

[Funk then Funk1]

I don't have my recipe here but it was roughly a tin of wheat LME plus another 1.5kg of light DME, then some extra dex to get the OG up a bit to fit the style with a small amount of pale crystal. The hops were Magnum to bitter and EKG and Styrian G at about 15mins plus a little bit of them both again at flame out. I used the WY3711 yeast and it came out really nice, needed a little while in the bottle to condition (it just got better after the first month). I used Ian H's spread sheet for the target OG.
Sounds like the Belle Saison yeast is similar to the wy3711, my actual FG was also between 1.000 and 1.001, so instead of the estimated 6.3%ABV it turned out more like 7.5%ABV. It was bloody nice though, on a hot day it was pretty easy to down a few, before you remembered that it was 7.5%

 

[stewy]

Cheers mate.

Just wondering the quantities or OG to aim for?

My OG was 1.045
FG 1.000 (1.008 predicted)
Ends up approx 6.3% after bottling

Next time might reduce/remove Dex & aim for 1.040. Will probably still finish low but prefer around 5% for a summer quaffer, not 6.3. Problem is, it slides down like its 4%!!
Dangerous

 

[thuperman]

Based on the suggestions above, going to the LBHS to buy the ingredients for the following. Let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks for all of the help.

Copied from BrewSmith:

Saison Type: Extract

Batch Size: 23.00 l
Boil Size: 10.00 l
Boil Time: 30 min
End of Boil Vol: 9.45 l
Final Bottling Vol: 21.49 l
Brewer: Delpy
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 kg Wheat Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 1 33.3 %
20.00 g Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 2 17.6 IBUs
20.00 g Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 3 5.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Danstar Belle Saison Ale Yeast
2.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 5 66.7 % (After boil)

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.044 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG - Assuming this will be closer to 1.001
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.0 % - As a result, this will be ~5.8%
Bitterness: 23.4 IBUs
Est Color: 12.3 EBC

 

[Rod]

My Favourite recipe


Saison

Saison

Original Gravity (OG): 1.043 (°P): 10.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (°P): 2.6
Alcohol (ABV): 4.32 %
Colour (SRM): 5.3 (EBC): 10.4
Bitterness (IBU): 30.9 (Average)

77.92% Dry Malt Extract - Light
16.23% Wheat Malt
5.84% Dextrose

2.4 g/L Saaz (3.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.8 g/L Saaz (3.6% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.8 g/L Saaz (3.6% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Danstar belle saison

Notes: add 12 litres water to pot
add 1200 g dried light malt extract
add 550 g dried wheat extract
bring to boil
set timer to 60 g min
add 60 saaz
at 30 minutes
add 20 g saaz
at flame out
add
20 g saaz
1200 g dried light malt extract
cool
add Danstar Belle saison
after fementation 180 g dextrose


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

 

[manticle]

You want classic/trad/historical saison, current version of same or new world?

Use briess pilsen dme, some wheat dme (maybe 75% pils, 25% wheat), your yeast at whatever temp manufacturer and/or ross recommends (not used belle so no comment from personal experience) and hop accordingly.
Noble hops for historical and current, something spicy and lemony from nz, au or us for new world .
2-4% abv for historical, 4-8 for current, whatever you like for new world.
I like well hopped so 30-40 ibu. I find hallertauer mittelfruh an excellent choice but would also use spalter and would consider styrians or tettnanger a good complement to either of those. Saaz also would be a good choice. If new world, I'd be going for something along the lines of sorachi.

 

[stewy]

Based on the suggestions above, going to the LBHS to buy the ingredients for the following. Let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks for all of the help.

Copied from BrewSmith:

Saison Type: Extract
Batch Size: 23.00 l
Boil Size: 10.00 l
Boil Time: 30 min
End of Boil Vol: 9.45 l
Final Bottling Vol: 21.49 l
Brewer: Delpy
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 kg Wheat Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 1 33.3 %
20.00 g Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 2 17.6 IBUs
20.00 g Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 3 5.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Danstar Belle Saison Ale Yeast
2.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 5 66.7 % (After boil)

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.044 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG - Assuming this will be closer to 1.001
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.0 % - As a result, this will be ~5.8%
Bitterness: 23.4 IBUs
Est Color: 12.3 EBC

That's pretty much identical to my recipe & it's turned out delicious!

I will probably even dry hop with 20g Sorachi on my next batch

 

[thuperman]

So, the LBHS made up my mind for me - they were out of Sorachi Ace. Thinking of doing the following now (replacing Sorachi Ace with Saaz). Thoughts?


Saison


Type: Extract
Batch Size: 23.00 l
Boil Size: 10.00 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 8.90 l
Final Bottling Vol: 21.49 l
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 17 Nov 2014
Brewer: Delpy
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Pot ( 4 Gal/15.1 L) - Extract
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 kg Wheat Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 1 33.3 %
40.00 g Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 2 16.7 IBUs
20.00 g Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 3 6.4 IBUs
20.00 g Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 4 4.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Danstar Belle Saison Yeast
2.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 6 66.7 %

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.044 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG - Assuming this will be closer to 1.001
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.0 % - As a result, this will be ~5.8%
Bitterness: 27.3 IBUs
Est Color: 12.3 EBC

 

[manticle]

Saaz will be fine. Recipe formatting is confusing.

 

[droid]

i did some weird stuff earlier this year and also made some weird brews

the Belgian saison style yeast has been used at home here in
- lme and dme brew
- lme and grain and dme and white sugar
- all grain and dme and white sugar

pilsner, coopers pale, marris otter pale (AG), crystal malt, crystal pale

cascade, chinook, ella, citra, galaxy, summit, centennial and maybe some others

not the sort of beer to do it with maybe?? but a mate loves most of them - he named the 2nd one "opening batsman"

completely useless information

definitely a spicy yeast - good luck hope it tastes great!

 

[Rod]

You want classic/trad/historical saison, current version of same or new world?

Use briess pilsen dme, some wheat dme (maybe 75% pils, 25% wheat), your yeast at whatever temp manufacturer and/or ross recommends (not used belle so no comment from personal experience) and hop accordingly.
Noble hops for historical and current, something spicy and lemony from nz, au or us for new world .
2-4% abv for historical, 4-8 for current, whatever you like for new world.
I like well hopped so 30-40 ibu. I find hallertauer mittelfruh an excellent choice but would also use spalter and would consider styrians or tettnanger a good complement to either of those. Saaz also would be a good choice. If new world, I'd be going for something along the lines of sorachi.

I have not been able to track down some briess pilsen dme extract

a suggested substitution was made to use light dme and about 5% light crystal

 

[manticle]

Grain and grape and craftbrewer both stock it.

 

[thuperman]

Brewed this last night as per post 10 above.

All went pretty well except that I couldn't get the temp down past 30C, so I ended up sealing it in the fermentor and placing it in the temp controlled fridge (set to 19C) overnight.

When I pitched this morning, I got an SG of 1055 - 11 points higher than the estimated value in BeerSmith. Does this make sense? I would have thought it would have been pretty spot on.

 

[paulyman]

If it was extract a high reading isn't unusual as it doesn't always mix in perfectly at first.

 

[thuperman]

Interesting. I did give it a big stir / aeration before taking the reading. Seems strange that you can't get an accurate SG reading on an extract brew.