S-04 yeast.

[Fendercaster]

Hi all. Im looking at some advice regarding s04. I have used it a couple of times but unfortunately ive found each time the yeast has "fallen out" and/or stop fermenting early.
For example my current brew, a fresh wort kit, was 1050 OG. Fermentation started quick and steadily. After 3 days its slowed bubbling and 9-12 days later i have a reading of 1018.
I pitch close to 22. Ferment at 20. I have dry pitched and started it 22c water before hand. Still aimilar results. Just not getting that last litte bit.
Any tips, suggestions or help as this is a tasty yeast.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I'd go with MJ79 or Nottingham personally but I've had some adequate results with s04. Mash low seems to do it for me - single infusion at around 63 degrees does the trick.

Alternatively, from memory I fermented lowish (18 degrees give or take) and ramped it up to 20-22 at the end. That was in Tassie and that was pretty well the blanket method based on the lack of temp control and the hot water system cupboard method.

 

[Brewman_]

Hey Fendercaster,

I use SO4 quite a bit for some of my beers. Never had a problem with it. In Fact last time I used it I had two brews in the fermenter fridge,
Stone and Wood Pacific Ale with US05
Coopers Clear Clone with S04.
Temperature at 21.
After three days SO4 (Coopers Clear) was at final gravity 1004 and dropped like a rock clear. The US05, Pacific Ale clone, was still at around 1020. Not trying to say one is better than the other, it's horses for courses and these are quite different beers, and yeasts, but this was no surprise to me, it just works great the SO4.

A couple of points to consider.
1) How fresh was the SO4 you got? Has it been refrigerated? How old is it?
2) The quality of the fresh wort pack. That's a big unknown. Depending on the ingredients used, their mash temperature, water chemistry, Adjuncts used, the performance of your yeast is going to vary based on that.

a wort of 1050 for a standard 23L batch may benefit from 2 satchels of yeast, but I would have expected better results than you achieved with one satchel.

I recall similar issues, a long time ago, from time to time when I was playing with kits and bits. I've not had the problem since doing AG.

Cheers Steve

 

[contrarian]

S04 does flocculate really well but I've never had problems with not getting it to finish. If you give the following a try it should work.

Give the fermenter a swirl by picking it up and gently swirling it around a few times. This can bring a bit more yeast back into solution.

Raise the temperature a few degrees towards the end of fermentation. Depending on how you measure the temperature of your fermenter it might actually be cooler than what you are measuring.

If that doesn't work you can dissolve a small amount of sugar in boiling water and add to the fermenter. This has worked for me but normally a combination of the first 2 does the trick.

 

[MHB]

Another S-04 fan, good quick clean fermenter that has never given me any trouble, I prefer it to 05 for most brews which probably says more about the beer I brew than about the yeasts.
Love the way it flocks and drops like a rock when its finished.
Mark

 

[contrarian]

Given that a lot of people seem to have this problem I wonder if people are fermenting cooler than they think or that the cycling of their fermenting fridge drops the temperature lower than expects at times.

It's difficult to know without measuring the actual wort temperature which most people don't do.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have never found it a problem to use, seems this topic comes up every 6 to 9 months or so, seems those who do have problem with it are doing something wrong.

 

[jphowman]

S-04 tends to finish out at ~1020 for me if I don't aerate before fermentation

 

[Coalminer]

Never had a problem with S-O4 (but mainly use it in dark ales and stouts)
always finishes around 1012 - 1014
Never bother aerating wort other than what it gets tipping from cube
I always re-hydrate (OOPS!)

 

[Fendercaster]

Hey all. Yes, i have mine in a cupboard and it sits at 20 min. It doesnt go above 24.
Before i pitch i dump at a distance to get some air in it. As for freshmess this wort was less than a month old. I know the guy who did it. Local brewer.
I also put my stirrer/paddle on my dril and swirl it around and get some air into it.
As for doing somwthing wrong im not sure i am. I have done everthing by book and i havent hovered either.

Thaks contrarian, i have heard about the swirl and done that which has activated it again.
I love 04 but hope to fix any issues i have.

 

[michaeld16]

I often use s04 and love it I think contrarian may be onto it, as in peoples temp control isn't quite where they think its at.

 

[GalBrew]

Pitching rate and fermentation temp are very important with this yeast. Pitch generously and gradually ramp up the temp as the ferment progresses it will work out fine.

 

[Fendercaster]

Pitching rate and fermentation temp are very important with this yeast. Pitch generously and gradually ramp up the temp as the ferment progresses it will work out fine.

Would you care to elaborate a bit further. Say a 21lt brew. English bitters.
1 pack or get a starter?
Start at 20 and ramp a degree from day 2 wach day till 24C?
just getting a little more knowledge. Cheers

 

[contrarian]

I'd normally start at 18C and then let the temperature rise to low 20's after 3-4 days. One pack has normally worked for me for a beer under 1.050 as long as it has been stored properly.

 

[GalBrew]

Would you care to elaborate a bit further. Say a 21lt brew. English bitters.
1 pack or get a starter?
Start at 20 and ramp a degree from day 2 wach day till 24C?
just getting a little more knowledge. Cheers

I'm pretty much like the previous post. 1 packet rehydrated for a beer with OG around 1.050. Two packet for a bigger beer. I usually start at 18C and start rising up a degree a day when SG gets around 1.030 (as it can stall at 1.020), up to 22C. You just need to keep an eye on the ferment as it flocs out like a brick and there isn't much you can do once this happens.

 

[RoneMac]

I always have trouble with this strain.
Complete drop out and a stuck fermentation at around 1.020 SG every single time.

It is always rehydrated and viable before pitching and everything is set up in a temperature controlled environment for a warm ferment with well oxygenated wort.

My thoughts on the matter are that this yeast can be really problematic even though some people have great success with it. As this is the only strain I have had trouble with my solution is to swap to an alternative strain with a similar profile.

 

[mosto]

Probably not much help as I see you've tried dry and re-hydrating, but I used to have problems with it stalling if I dry pitched. Whenever I've re-hydrated, no problems.

 

[MHB]

I know this will upset some here, put please think it through before having a kitten.
The aim of an All Grain brewer is to create an environment where the yeast can do the job we want, that is to say fully ferment the sugars in the wort into alcohol and CO2, produce desirable flavours, clean up its metabolic waste products... producing green beer with the flavours we want.

We are talking about one of the most popular and reliable dry yeasts used in home and commercial brewing, many brewers report excellent results from S-04, others using the same yeast have problems. Apart from the occasional damaged package (happens more than once - change suppliers) I suggest that the problem is far less likely to be with the yeast than with the brewers who are having the problems.

After a ferment starts, there has to be a cause for yeast to stop before attenuating the wort, be it damaged yeast, under/over pitching, poor wort composition (balance of fermentable sugars, available nitrogen, good trub separation...), nutrient deficiencies (O2, Zn, Ca, Mg... FAN) or temperature control and stability.
Yeast doesn't stall with out a good reason, if you are having problems with yeast, take a long hard look at your brewing process and equipment.

Do the basics right
Good control of mash temperature (get a good thermometer to calibrate your other sensors)
Sensible mash conditions (L:G, mash temperature time and intensity)
Water chemistry (just do basic stuff reasonable Ca Mg pH)
Wort aeration and nutrient (O2 is a good investment, add nutrient (a good one not DAP))
Yeast pitching rates (no point in spending money on malt and hops, doing 4 hours work then penny pinching on yeast)
Temperature control (a fridge and a controller will not cost much and FFS put a small fan in the fridge)

In short instead of whinging about the yeast - learn how to brew!
Mark

 

[pcmfisher]

^^ Yes, that's all very well, but it doesn't explain why some people have trouble with S04 and not with other yeasts.

Is S04 more susceptible to these shortcomings?

BTW, I have never had trouble with S04.

 

[Rocker1986]

I've had a bit of both with this yeast. Some batches fermented out fine and a couple didn't. Loved the porters I brewed with it though. I don't use it at the moment although that's mainly because I'm experimenting with some liquid British ale strains.