Rescuing my bulk priming mistake

[whitegoose]

So I have an 12L Old Ale, OG:1.086 (20.59 Brix), FG:1.017 (4.28 Plato - corrected from a 10.6 Brix reading on the refractometer using a WCF of 1.02)... decided to bulk prime for the first time today. Cooked up 69g of dextrose in 100ml of water cooled, added to bottling bucket and racked on top of it.

I took a refractometer reading from the bottling bucket at 11 Brix... after I had finished bottling It occurred to me that I didn't really stir up the sugar very much and relied on the movement from racking, so I swished the dregs from the bottling bucket around and took another reading at 12 Brix. ******* great. So it looks like I missed a lot of sugars when bottling... my uncorrected refractometer readings went from 10.6 Brix before priming to 11.0 Brix after priming... anyone have any idea how to figure out whether that much priming sugar will give me noticible carbonation? And if not, how much sugar I would need to syringe into each bottle to correct the mistake?

 

[boybrewer]

RDWHAHB .Obviously when adding sugar the reading will go up .That's why the yeasties are there to eat the sugars it raises the ABV a little and farts out Co2 . Relax jobs done don't **** around with it .It is what it is next time make sure you get the swirl happening . No one is gunna die from under carbing .

 

[whitegoose]

Hahah yeah I know the reading will go up when I add priming sugar - my problem is that it didn't go up enough! Hoping some maths genius can figure out from all my readings how much priming sugar I ended up with in my bottles, so I can correct it. I'm thinking it won;t just be undercarbed, it will be dead flat But yeah maybe I do just need to RDWHAHB

 

[boybrewer]

Hahah yeah I know the reading will go up when I add priming sugar - my problem is that it didn't go up enough! Hoping some maths genius can figure out from all my readings how much priming sugar I ended up with in my bottles, so I can correct it. I'm thinking it won;t just be undercarbed, it will be dead flat But yeah maybe I do just need to RDWHAHB

Move on learn from it and try not to make the same mistake again , unlike me it takes a couple of times to realize the mistakes , before I correct them hahahaha .

 

[Jack of all biers]

Unless I have my maths all squ-if you added 5.75 gm/L. This is at the high end for an English style ale or medium for an aussie ale, especially at that strength. I'm not sure how to calculate your brix readings (SG & Plato yes), but that would purely be guess work as to how it would effect the bottles that had been bottled prior. My gut tells me your carbonation levels will be fine and maybe too high for the final bottles. If your readings were correct that is. No aspersions here I just don't trust refractometers and post fermentation readings.

 

[wynnum1]

Putting the sugar solution in the bottom of the bucket probably not the best option could stick to the container.

 

[Nick667]

Cant be any worse than bulk priming with iodised salt.
I DID IT!
Wife put the bulk salt bag where I usually keep the Bulk sugar bag.
The eye balls aren't so good these days and I didn't pick it up until I tasted it at bottling.
All went down the plug hole.
Could have spat blood.

 

[Rocker1986]

Putting the sugar solution in the bottom of the bucket probably not the best option could stick to the container.

Rubbish. Unless it was left there for days to dry out, the sugar solution won't stick to the bucket. If the beer was racked onto it pretty much as soon as it was put into the bucket then it will be fine. It may not have mixed through as well as it could have in this instance but it's not from the sugar solution sticking.

That's the method I used over numerous batches combined with a gentle stirring after the beer had been racked just to be sure that it all mixed in evenly. Never had a problem with carbonation levels across the batch(es).

 

[Jack of all biers]

+ 1 to Rocker. The 69 gm dextrose was mixed in with 100ml of water and cooked before cooling. I doubt the OP cooked it into a thick syrup, which would be the only way that it could have 'stuck to the bottom' as has been suggested. Could happen, but unlikely. For those out there that don't know, don't make your bulk prime solution with as little water as you can, as it could turn into a syrup and then not mix so well with the beer. It would still mix fairly well, but cooled syrup doesn't mix as well as cooled sugary water. The example I can think of would be using cold honey. In that case it won't mix evenly with the wort. Easily over come by following the basics and adding it to 200 ml water and boiling for 10 minutes before cooling and adding to bottling bucket. The OP's 100 ml is fine for under 100gm sugars, but 200-250 ml is most often used for anything above 100gm.

 

[MHB]

If your Brix (Plato) went from 10.6 to 11, you have added 0.4oP which is the same as 4g/L (the water content of the dextrose doesn't show up in the oP).
4g fully fermenter will produce 1.87g/L of CO2 (0.95 Volumes if you use the American system)
According to Braukaiser British ales are usually carbonated at 3-4g/L, Porters and Stout at 3.4-4.6g/L so I think you will be a bit light on.
From there you should be able to work out what to add
Mark

Standard assumptions
1g sugar (+0.005g Amino Acid) ferments into 0.488g Alcohol, 0.468g CO2 and 0.05g yeast
1g/L CO2 is the same as 0.506 Volumes
(here's hoping I haven't fat fingered a decimal - a drop or two of stout onboard)

Yep fat as - fixed

 

[whitegoose]

Thanks for the discussion guys - and a massive thanks to MHB - you are the maths genius I have been searching for! This forum never ceases to amaze me.

So what I'm planning is to cook up 48g (12L @ 4g/L) of sugar with enough water so that I can syringe 2ml into each bottle, open them, inject, and recap. I'm thinking this should more or less double the CO2 volumes from 0.95 to about 1.9 (or about 3.7 g/L CO2). Please let me know if I'm doing terrible maths!

 

[MHB]

Sounds about right - after a couple of beer - I'll do the numbers in the morning.
If you use sugar, it's 100% fermentable and has a 100% yield. Dextrose is dextrose monohydrate and you have to take the weight of the water into account (~10%) so you need 10% more dextrose.
Mark

 

[whitegoose]

Well, I went ahead and did it! For the record I was using dextrose the whole time, I just call it sugar cos I'm lazy. I bumped my amount up by 10%.

Trap for young players - I did my maths so that the sugar would be evenly distributed by approximately enough liquid to give me 2ml per bottle... I figured I would need about 70ml of liquid... my mistake was not accounting for the fact that after I cooked up 52g of dextrose in 70ml of water, you get more than 70ml of sugar solution! So I eneded up with more liquid than anticipated, so by the time I had injected 2ml into each bottle, I had about 20ml of liquid left over, I only distibuted 77% of the liquid, which means I only distibuted 77% of the dextrose.

My feeling is that it wil still be under-carbonated, but it will be far better than it would have been!

 

[Blind Dog]

Before (might be too late) you add the sugar, what yeast did you use and how long are you going to mature the beer before drinking? I'm assuming that you brewed an English old ale and thus used an English yeast? A fair number of English yeasts carry on munching very slowly on residual sugars over time. Case in point, I have an 18 month old old ale using wlp002 in a keg, that 'finished' just slightly higher than yours, has never received additional sugar or CO2, but would be massively over carbed if I didn't release pressure every now and then. It usually lives in the fermenting fridge.

 

[wynnum1]

69 gm dextrose was mixed in with 100ml of water is thick solution and think it could adhere to the base of bucket pouring into the beer would be better then into an empty bucket also what is the best way to mix in without aerating.

 

[Rocker1986]

It's actually not that much different of a ratio to when I mixed up 180-200g dextrose in about 300mL of water. It's not a terribly thick solution once it's all dissolved properly, i.e. it is far from the viscosity of syrup, and it won't stick to the bottom of the bottling bucket, especially if it's hot. Besides, as soon as the beer starts flowing in, it thins it out anyway.

The whole point of putting the priming solution in first is so that when the beer is racked onto it, it mixes in from the movement of the beer coming out of the hose. At least, it mixes in enough so that you only need a gentle stir with another implement to get it evenly mixed in if it's not already from the transfer.

 

[whitegoose]

Just to close the loop on this one - after following the advice in this thread (especially from MHB) my Old Ale is carbonated *perfectly*
Thanks team!