Recipedb - Coopers Pale Ale Clone

[mje1980]

That looks like a lot of IBUs for sparkling. Im no expert though, but with high bitterness and a lowish final gravity, it might overpower???


Anyone used nottingham in a CPA style ale??
I recently did a CPA style ale, not exactly a copy, but only a 60 min addition, a bees **** of crystal, and about 5% wheat, with the coopers yeast. It isn't the most flavourful beer, but it is very nice, and a good house beer, but im thinking of trying it with nottingham. Obviously, it wont be the same, but im curious if anyone has done it????

 

[AndrewQLD]

That looks like a lot of IBUs for sparkling. Im no expert though, but with high bitterness and a lowish final gravity, it might overpower???


Anyone used nottingham in a CPA style ale??
I recently did a CPA style ale, not exactly a copy, but only a 60 min addition, a bees **** of crystal, and about 5% wheat, with the coopers yeast. It isn't the most flavourful beer, but it is very nice, and a good house beer, but im thinking of trying it with nottingham. Obviously, it wont be the same, but im curious if anyone has done it????

I've made the CPA with Nottingham a few times (my wife likes it) but it's not really a true CPA style of beer. It lacked the fruity esters that you get with the original yeast and while it was very drinkable it had no depth of flavour, and it was crystal clear.

If your looking to get close to a Coopers Clone you need to use the recultured Coopers yeast.

Andrew

 

[Hutch]

Unfortunately, I don't have POR flowers, just fresh Super Pride pellets and some old POR pellets that I will use as a mash or FW hop.

Only advice I'd give is to ditch the old POR pellets. Mash-hopping won't contribute any IBUs, and old pellets don't have the flavour/aroma to warrant their use. Stick with the Super pride all at 60minutes (to about 26IBU's), and let the yeast do the talking :lol:

Hutch.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Apologies in advance if this is hijacking the thread :unsure: but I'm going to try a Cooper's Sparkling Ale clone in the next day or so (have the yeast starter bubbling away at the mo, cultured from a fresh bottle of CSA) and wanted some opinions on it. Unfortunately, I don't have POR flowers, just fresh Super Pride pellets and some old POR pellets that I will use as a mash or FW hop.



Views?

Regards

ToG

Also IMHO add another 200g of wheat to your grain bill giving it a SG of 1.050 and you should get an FG around 1.008-1.010.
which would give you 5.2-5.5% alc /vol (CSA is 5.8%)

I have used Super Pride in an Aussie pale with FWH & 20min additions and it worked very well, If you did 10g of Super pride at FWH & 20min you would get according to my Promash calcs 27.8IBU, you wouldn't want to go much higher really.

Good luck with it cheers,
BB

 

[NeilArge]

Only advice I'd give is to ditch the old POR pellets. Mash-hopping won't contribute any IBUs, and old pellets don't have the flavour/aroma to warrant their use. Stick with the Super pride all at 60minutes (to about 26IBU's), and let the yeast do the talking :lol:

Hutch.

Thanks Hutch. Much appreciated.

ToG

 

[NeilArge]

Also IMHO add another 200g of wheat to your grain bill giving it a SG of 1.050 and you should get an FG around 1.008-1.010.
which would give you 5.2-5.5% alc /vol (CSA is 5.8%)

I have used Super Pride in an Aussie pale with FWH & 20min additions and it worked very well, If you did 10g of Super pride at FWH & 20min you would get according to my Promash calcs 27.8IBU, you wouldn't want to go much higher really.

Good luck with it cheers,
BB

Also excellent advice BB. So would you go with a 60 min. addition as well or just those two?

Cheers

ToG

 

[BoilerBoy]

Also excellent advice BB. So would you go with a 60 min. addition as well or just those two?

Cheers

ToG

Leave out the 60 min addition,

BB

 

[NeilArge]

Also IMHO add another 200g of wheat to your grain bill giving it a SG of 1.050 and you should get an FG around 1.008-1.010.
which would give you 5.2-5.5% alc /vol (CSA is 5.8%)

I have used Super Pride in an Aussie pale with FWH & 20min additions and it worked very well, If you did 10g of Super pride at FWH & 20min you would get according to my Promash calcs 27.8IBU, you wouldn't want to go much higher really.

Good luck with it cheers,
BB

BB

I might just be down a bit on wheat malt (probably got c. 200gms) but I do have quite a bit of torrified wheat. Would you recommend subbing some of that for the wheat malt?

Cheers

ToG

 

[BoilerBoy]

BB

I might just be down a bit on wheat malt (probably got c. 200gms) but I do have quite a bit of torrified wheat. Would you recommend subbing some of that for the wheat malt?

Cheers

ToG

That would be fine.

BB

 

[Wolfy]

After spending 4.5 days in the primary I just just transferred this CPA Clone to secondary and now (better) understand the comments about fruity esters/banana flavors when using CPA re-cultured yeast. Fermentation temp was 18-19deg, so its not overpowering but it is noticeable in the hydrometer sample - seems quite nice actually.

While the OG was pretty much spot on at 1.048 it's already down to 1.008, which is more attenuation (in only 4.5 days) than I expected it would finish at.

 

[AndrewQLD]

After spending 4.5 days in the primary I just just transferred this CPA Clone to secondary and now (better) understand the comments about fruity esters/banana flavors when using CPA re-cultured yeast. Fermentation temp was 18-19deg, so its not overpowering but it is noticeable in the hydrometer sample - seems quite nice actually.

While the OG was pretty much spot on at 1.048 it's already down to 1.008, which is more attenuation (in only 4.5 days) than I expected it would finish at.

Sounds good to me Wolfy, if you can drop a few more points off the FG you'll have a pearler on your hands. The Esters will mellow out as fermentation finishes.
Please tell us how it turns out.

Andrew

 

[Hutch]

My latest incarnation of this drop is an absolute ripper, worthy enough to add a few notes to this discussion...

4.5kg Powels Pils
0.2kg Wheat
0.05kg JW Dark Crystal
35gm Northdown pellets (60min boil, 26IBU)
Single infusion mash at 62deg
6gm Gypsum (50ppm)
OG - 1.044
FG - 1.006
Coopers recultured yeast (2Ltr starter)

I brewed the recipe above as a simple test of some new AG equipment, not really expecting great results....No-chilled, and fermented out in 3 days at 18deg, CC'd for a few days then force-carbed. It is drinking superbly at only 9 days grain to brain, which is astonishing! The usual subtle banana and bready character, dry and crisp, very smooth bitterness, low hop aroma.

Hops
I didn't have any POR on hand, but instead used up some old Northdown (bittering addition only). In future I won't be so pedantic about insisting on POR, as the main character really comes from the yeast. Unless you can get fresh POR flowers, I think it is preferable to use a neutral bittering hop than risk using old POR (which I have done in the past, with poor results).

Malt
Powels pils is very cheap, and notoriously under-modified, so no surprises I got about 60% efficiency into the fermenter with a single-infusion mash. Big deal - 4.5kg malt cost me $9 - total cost about $13 for 23Ltrs, by far my cheapest AG to date - cheaper than a can of goop!

Sugar
After a lengthy discussion with Tony Wheeler (Pale Ale guru) at ANHC, I decided to drop the sugar (as has been discussed above) and use a low mash temp instead in order to acheive the low FG. I was sceptical, but bugger me - it worked. He also suggested a good dose of gypsum to get in the range 50-100ppm Ca.

Yeast
The recultured Coopers yeast is obviously the key to this recipe. I built up a nice big 2Ltr starter from a couple of CPA stubbies, which took about 48 hours on a stir-plate. This yeast is hungry, and wanted to climb out the top of the fermenter. Combined with a low mash temp, apparent attenuation was very high (about 86%), with no sugar required.

...such a simple, fast turnaraound keg-filler.
Now, what other AG equipment do I need to test?

 

[rosswill]

I also put one of these ones down on the weekend. I used:
4kg JW pilsner
250g wheat malt
50g light crystal (had no dark)
500g rice.
30g POR for 60 mins
Recultured CPA yeast from 2 stubbies

I have listened to all the 'no sugar' arguments and went without. Instead I added the rice, which was boiled for 20 minutes and added to the mash. To me, all malt would taste great, but would be more malty than the original. Time will tell. Mashed at 65 degrees for 75 minutes.
Got an OG of 1045, which should give me my target of around 4.5% ABV.
Currently in primary at 16 degrees. Gee that yeast has a good fermenting range.
Will report back on the results in a couple of weeks.

 

[AndrewQLD]

My latest incarnation of this drop is an absolute ripper, worthy enough to add a few notes to this discussion...

4.5kg Powels Pils
0.2kg Wheat
0.05kg JW Dark Crystal
35gm Northdown pellets (60min boil, 26IBU)
Single infusion mash at 62deg
6gm Gypsum (50ppm)
OG - 1.044
FG - 1.006
Coopers recultured yeast (2Ltr starter)

I brewed the recipe above as a simple test of some new AG equipment, not really expecting great results....No-chilled, and fermented out in 3 days at 18deg, CC'd for a few days then force-carbed. It is drinking superbly at only 9 days grain to brain, which is astonishing! The usual subtle banana and bready character, dry and crisp, very smooth bitterness, low hop aroma.

Hops
I didn't have any POR on hand, but instead used up some old Northdown (bittering addition only). In future I won't be so pedantic about insisting on POR, as the main character really comes from the yeast. Unless you can get fresh POR flowers, I think it is preferable to use a neutral bittering hop than risk using old POR (which I have done in the past, with poor results).

Malt
Powels pils is very cheap, and notoriously under-modified, so no surprises I got about 60% efficiency into the fermenter with a single-infusion mash. Big deal - 4.5kg malt cost me $9 - total cost about $13 for 23Ltrs, by far my cheapest AG to date - cheaper than a can of goop!

Sugar
After a lengthy discussion with Tony Wheeler (Pale Ale guru) at ANHC, I decided to drop the sugar (as has been discussed above) and use a low mash temp instead in order to acheive the low FG. I was sceptical, but bugger me - it worked. He also suggested a good dose of gypsum to get in the range 50-100ppm Ca.

Yeast
The recultured Coopers yeast is obviously the key to this recipe. I built up a nice big 2Ltr starter from a couple of CPA stubbies, which took about 48 hours on a stir-plate. This yeast is hungry, and wanted to climb out the top of the fermenter. Combined with a low mash temp, apparent attenuation was very high (about 86%), with no sugar required.

...such a simple, fast turnaraound keg-filler.
Now, what other AG equipment do I need to test?

Looks good Hutch, the Coopers yeast is an aggressive little monster, I will hopefuly be making a my CPA this weekend without the sugar and will be reducing my SG accordingly to keep the alcohol within limits.

Like you I plan to mash low and add some water additions to get the gravity down, I've been more than happy with my CPA using sugar but I am more than willing to try without it and I'll report my results as well. I think you might be right about the hops too, but I just can't bring myself to sub the POR.

Andrew

 

[TidalPete]

Looks good Hutch, the Coopers yeast is an aggressive little monster, I will hopefuly be making a my CPA this weekend without the sugar and will be reducing my SG accordingly to keep the alcohol within limits.

Like you I plan to mash low and add some water additions to get the gravity down, I've been more than happy with my CPA using sugar but I am more than willing to try without it and I'll report my results as well. I think you might be right about the hops too, but I just can't bring myself to sub the POR.

Andrew

Andrew,

If you haven't already you must really try the Super Pride even though it may(?) negate your efforts to create a true CPA clone.

TP

 

[Hutch]

Andrew,

If you haven't already you must really try the Super Pride even though it may(?) negate your efforts to create a true CPA clone.

TP

TP,
This had been my plan as well, but my Craftbrewer parcel arrived without the Super pride
I wasn't expecting Northdown to be so neutral, even though it is regarded as a good all-round UK hop.
I'll definitely be trying the Super Pride next time though - might shave another $1 off the total cost.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Here's the latest version of my CPA without the sugar component, I've also adjusted my mash water with salt additions based on my local Bundaberg water report.
My aim is to get the FG down as low as I can, hopefully 1.004 - 1.006, I'm still sticking to the white board grain bill but I have upped the dark crystal malt addition to by 20g to 50g to get closer to the originals color.
Changed the mash schedule as well to get a little better attenuation I hope.

I've got a 1 lt Coopers Pale Ale starter bubbling away as I type that smells great and I'm wondering if I dare squeeze in a brewday on saturday before going away for our anniversary
What's my chances :lol:

View attachment Coopers_All_Grain.bsm

Style: Australian Pale Ale
Recipe: Coopers Clone Pale Ale TYPE: All Grain
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
Est SRM: 8.9 EBC SRM RANGE: 7.9-13.8 EBC
Est IBU: 26.6 IBU IBU RANGE: 25.0-40.0 IBU
Est OG: 1.043 SG OG RANGE: 1.035-1.048 SG
Est FG: 1.006 SG FG RANGE: 1.004-1.006 SG
Est BU:GU: 0.623 Calories: 393 cal/l Est ABV: 4.8 %
EE%: 80.00 % Batch: 23.00 L Boil: 28.19 L BT: 60 Mins
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1 Pkgs Coopers pale Ale Cultured [Starter 1000 mlYeast-Ale

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
2g Calcium Chloride
2g Epsom Salts
3g gypsum.

-------Ingredients for Mashing--------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.75 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (4.0 EBC)Grain 93.75 %
0.20 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.4 EBC) Grain 5.00 %
0.03 kg Crystal Dark Bairds (240.0 EBC) Grain 1.25 %

Total Grain Weight: 4.00 kg Total Hops: 28.00 oz.
---MASH PROCESS-----------------------------
Pilsner Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
5 min Mash In Add 16.00 L of water at 36.8 C 35.0 C
15 min Protien Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min 52.0 C
45 min Sacch Rest Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C
30 min Sach Rest Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C
10 min Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.0 C

---SPARGE PROCESS-----RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS !!
Drain Mash Tun
Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 17.20 L of 78.0 C water

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.035 Est OG: 1.043 SG
Boil Ingredients
Boil Amount Item Type
60 min 28.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [8.30 %] (60 min) Hops
10 min 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
10 min 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc



EDIT: Replaced BSM File with the final version that reflects the crystal malt staying at 30g. And adjusted the above recipe the same.

 

[tazman1967]

Im going to do this....got a six pack starter going.
Harvested some POR of my own... GO Flower Power,
tastes better than pellets IMHO
Cheers

 

[Uncle Fester]

Andrew,
I have been looking for some inspiration. I may give this one a lash with Canberra water and see what the beer fairy brings me. PM me with an address and I will send a sampler to you for your comparison.

Fester Out.

 

[Hutch]

:chug: Absolutely loving this one at the moment, and won't be happy when the keg blows froth.
A few inebriated thoughts...
* Dropping the sugar was a big plus IMHO - mashing low and pitching big gets the FG down low.
* Only thing I'll probably change next time is to ferment even lower (perhaps 16-17deg) to get less banana.
* The Powels pils has really worked well - beautiful malt backbone (I guess it must be cheap because of its modification)

Andrew, Fester and Taz - let us know how yours all turn out .