RecipeDB - Chrismoose Ale

[bcp]

Thinking of doing this for christmas. But...

1. My wife is allergic to honey. My thinking is that the sugars are fermented out, so it's mostly the aromatics of the honey that must be coming through, right? I'm wondering if i use some melanoidin (which apparently has a honey-like taste) + some golden syrup will that get me close?

2. I was also also going to do all-grain just because i've got it here anyway. So i'm thinking just pale malt would substitute the LME & DME?

3. Is there a big difference between hallertauer and hersbrucker? I've got heaps of hersbrucker, that's all.

 

[bconnery]

Thinking of doing this for christmas. But...

1. My wife is allergic to honey. My thinking is that the sugars are fermented out, so it's mostly the aromatics of the honey that must be coming through, right? I'm wondering if i use some melanoidin (which apparently has a honey-like taste) + some golden syrup will that get me close?

2. I was also also going to do all-grain just because i've got it here anyway. So i'm thinking just pale malt would substitute the LME & DME?

3. Is there a big difference between hallertauer and hersbrucker? I've got heaps of hersbrucker, that's all.

1. I wouldn't go for melanoiden I don't think, maybe just some golden syrup, or something like golden naked oats. I don't think the honey is a massive component, as the spices and the orange are more the dominant component.
2. Absolutely. I think CityMorgue has put his AG version in the thread somewhere, I haven't gone back to this since going AG.
3. Isn't hersbrucker a hallertauer variant? Or very similar? It would be fine I think. Any noble hop would do...

 

[brettprevans]

Yup I put an AG version up on the first page. Great beer
Hersbrucker is a type of hallertau. It's fine to use it.

 

[sponge]

Hey all,

Looking at brewing a xmas ale for this xmas but was contemplating making it a little more of a spiced porter as opposed to a lighter ale as per the original.

Most of my family are red wine drinkers and not really big beer drinkers ( :blink: ) but dont mind giving the old home brews a go. Since we have xmas pudding each year I was thinking of making a darker christmoos ale for the occasion...

How does the following sound...

60% ale
20% munich
5% wheat
5% crystal
4% aroma
3% choc
1% carafa I

1.060

10 IBU hallertau @ FWH
25 IBU hallertau @ FO

T-58

Then the usual spice suspects of "juice & rind of 4 oranges. 2.5tsp nutmeg. 1.5 tsp cloves. 1tsp mixed spice. 6 cardamom pods crushed, 2 sticks + 1tsp cinnamon" for the spices

Didnt really plan on using the honey with it being a dark beer, and replacing with the dried fruit flavour of the caraaroma. I also didn't want it too roasty, so was hoping the small amounts of choc and carafa would do the trick.

Any feedback on the recipe would be appreciated.


Cheers,

Sponge

 

[brettprevans]

Hey all,

Looking at brewing a xmas ale for this xmas but was contemplating making it a little more of a spiced porter as opposed to a lighter ale as per the original.

Most of my family are red wine drinkers and not really big beer drinkers ( :blink: ) but dont mind giving the old home brews a go. Since we have xmas pudding each year I was thinking of making a darker christmoos ale for the occasion...

How does the following sound...

60% ale
20% munich
5% wheat
5% crystal
4% aroma
3% choc
1% carafa I

1.060

10 IBU hallertau @ FWH
25 IBU hallertau @ FO

T-58

Then the usual spice suspects of "juice & rind of 4 oranges. 2.5tsp nutmeg. 1.5 tsp cloves. 1tsp mixed spice. 6 cardamom pods crushed, 2 sticks + 1tsp cinnamon" for the spices

Didnt really plan on using the honey with it being a dark beer, and replacing with the dried fruit flavour of the caraaroma. I also didn't want it too roasty, so was hoping the small amounts of choc and carafa would do the trick.

Any feedback on the recipe would be appreciated.


Cheers,

Sponge

carafa is dehusked so is good at not imparting toi much roast/bitterness/harshness. Looks like ur basicly going fir colour rather than flavour? U will get some flavour but not a heap. Sou.ds fine to me. U could always increasr depth of flavour by using caraamber.

 

[sponge]

Cheers for the reply CM

Yea I was using the carafa due to the reduced bitter roast flavour, but should still impart a little hint of it which I'm looking for.

I may even bump the carafa to 2%, reduce the munich and add a touch of amber as you suggest which should give a nice nutty and sweet edge.

60% ale
15% munich
5% wheat
5% crystal
5% aroma
5% amber
3% choc
2% carafa I

Probably mash at 64-65 just to try and make sure it doesnt get tooooo sweet, although I will want a fair bit of sweetness there. The 15% crystal, amber and aroma should help with that though so I won't mash too high.

Should be able to brew this in the next couple of weeks and hopefully have it aged nicely and ready for christmas.

Might even just to a 10L batch and bottle it all as with only having 7 kegs, I don't want to 'waste' a keg with something that will be aging for a while.... I am already down one keg with the barley wine I have aging atm <_<


Sponge

 

[brettprevans]

Cheers for the reply CM
....I may even bump the carafa to 2%, reduce the munich and add a touch of amber as you suggest which should give a nice nutty and sweet edge....
Sponge

I thought I suggested Caraaroma. caraamber will work as well, just impart a slightly diff flavour. bugger all diff in those quanities

.....Might even just to a 10L batch and bottle it all as with only having 7 kegs, I don't want to 'waste' a keg with something that will be aging for a while.... I am already down one keg with the barley wine I have aging atm <_<

make a full batch. because its AG and your kegging. conditioning time wil prob reduce to 3 months. you will drain the keg pretty quickly once made. trust me

 

[bconnery]

Recipe looks alright to me.
The spices etc. were all based on more 'traditional' christmas beers anyway, so they are loosely from recipes for darker beers as they were for winter.
I wouldn't worry too much about the honey either in a darker beer.

 

[sponge]

Ahk, yea I already had a touch of aroma in there, but I may just bump it up a bit because its preeeetty delicious. Ill see how the stocks are going after brewing tomorrow.

Either way, should be a cracker of a beer and may very well end up being a full batch.


Cheers,

Sponge

 

[brettprevans]

I wouldn't worry too much about the honey either in a darker beer.

hmm good point. possibly either bump up the honey or use a strong flavoured honey or just leave it out.

 

[sponge]

Just brewed this on Friday (with the grain bill from post 66 @ 1.062), and from sampling after the boil, was de-friggin-licious.

I used whole/fresh spices to the tune of (for 22L) 6 cloves, 6 cardamon pods, 1 cinammon stick, 1/2 ground nutmeg, good stick of ginger - grated, and 3 oranges, rind and juice (couldnt get much juice from the organes, so broke them up and threw them into the muslin bag along with the spices for the final 5min).

Also added 100g of hallertauer to the cube instead of FO to grab a little more aroma from them, with FWH-ing the rest to 35IBU's.

Once I have a spare keg, ill get onto fermenting this (which reminds me I need to order some t58, unless theres another yeast that can be used??)

I thought I'd rather be under-spiced than over spiced with everything, and can always add a little 'spice tea' to the fermenter if any flavours are lacking.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to trying this. Definitely happy I went full batch instead of half.


Cheers for the recipe.


Sponge

 

[brettprevans]

.... I need to order some t58, unless theres another yeast that can be used??)
Sponge

T58 is just the dry yeast that can be used. your looking to get some nice belgiany esters/characters. so any good liquid belgian yeast would do. or recultered chimay.

 

[sponge]

Yea I'd be looking at something that doesnt attenuate too much to leave a bit of body and sweetness to it.

Don't really want a 1.000 type saison as the end result. I was thinking of t58 only because I didn't have any belgians lined up in the near distant future so didn't want to spend the cash monies on a liquid, although it's always worth the extra dough...

Have you had any experience with this beer using an american or english ale strain?

Just wondering if it would be worth trying one to maintain the malty notes and obtain the esters from the spices themselves?


Sponge

 

[brettprevans]

Yea I'd be looking at something that doesnt attenuate too much to leave a bit of body and sweetness to it.

Don't really want a 1.000 type saison as the end result. I was thinking of t58 only because I didn't have any belgians lined up in the near distant future so didn't want to spend the cash monies on a liquid, although it's always worth the extra dough...

Have you had any experience with this beer using an american or english ale strain?

Just wondering if it would be worth trying one to maintain the malty notes and obtain the esters from the spices themselves?


Sponge

an english would work, bu you wont get the belgian characteristics. stick with t58 is your looking for a cheaper option. your going to want to ferment warm with the belgian yeasts 9incl t58), like 24-26C. you wouldnt want to do that with englidh yeasts

 

[sponge]

Yea I was just thinking of possibly using a yeast for a couple of different brews. I normally do english and american ales which is why I was asking if one of those would be usable with this beer.

The last saison I made threw some real nice esters out which I could see going quite nicely with the spices, except I'm not really looking to fill my kegs with so many belgian type beers. I already have a fruit saison and 'hoppy american' saison in kegs atm, so 2 out of my 7 kegs are already filled some with nicely estered brews. Just looking at a yeast I'd be able to use for a couple of brews afterwards which I dont think will end up being belgians as my mates and myself finish the APA/EPA's first.

Seeing as though the fermenting fridge will be free by the weekend, I may just use 1056 or 1469 or something to give it a go with. Worst that happens is some of the spice flavours get stripped and ill throw a small tea made from the original spices in to secondary.


Sponge

 

[bconnery]

So very far after the fact but how did you go?
I used t58 in the original as it give a nice spice element that I thought would work well with the rest but I think this beer will handle a lot of types of yeast. I think you could easily go neutral, but an english yeast would go ok.

My wife is planning to make christmas pudding vodka again this year, where you soak the various dried fruit in vodka for a month or more and then strain it out and have delicious flavoured vodka to drink and delicious vodka flavoured dried fruit to use. In the past we put it in ice cream but I'm thinking it needs to go in a beer this time so I'm debating whether to go the pale ale again or put it in a darker beer this time...