Recipedb - Altbier

[manticle]

Altbier

Ale - North German Altbier
All Grain

Brewer's Notes

Step mash:

TEMP: 55/63/67/72/78

MINS: 5/10/45/10/10

Decoct a thick mash portion after hitting 67 and add back for mash out.

Primary fermentation should be around 14 degrees.
Conditioning refers to cold conditioning/lagering. As long as you can be bothered really but minimum 3 weeks at 0-2 degrees.

Beer was no chilled.
Actual FG was 1010 so higher alc and drier than suggested.

NB: 300g of Briess Victory malt was added : not in the drop down menu. Dingemans biscuit would be a fine sub (and my preferred - I just didn't have any).
Choc malt was actually simpsons as that is what I had on hand but in that amount the difference is probably small.

Sulphate: Chloride ration adjusted for your water/mash but I added about 3-4g each to mash and boil using Melbourne water.

Malt & Fermentables

%	KG	Fermentable
	4 kg	Weyermann Pilsner
	4 kg	Weyermann Vienna
	0.1 kg	Bairds Light Chocolate Malt

Hops

Time	Grams	Variety	Form	AA
	70 g	Styrian Goldings (Pellet, 5.4AA%, 60mins)
	70 g	Tettnang (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 60mins)
	20 g	Styrian Goldings (Pellet, 5.4AA%, 20mins)
	20 g	Tettnang (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 20mins)
	10 g	Styrian Goldings (Pellet, 5.4AA%, 0mins)
	10 g	Tettnang (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 0mins)

Yeast

2000 ml

Wyeast Labs 1007 - German Ale

35L Batch Size

Brew Details

• Original Gravity 1.051 (calc)
• Final Gravity 1.013 (calc)
• Bitterness 59 IBU
• Efficiency 70%
• Alcohol 4.94%
• Colour 23 EBC
• Batch Size 35L

Fermentation

• Primary 7 days
• Secondary 7 days
• Conditioning 4 days

 

[eamonnfoley]

Looks great, although Styrians may give a non-german impression. but they will probably just be awesome.

Just been to Dusseldorf for the second time, and I still maintain mid to late hopping is a prominent feature in several alts (Uerige & Schlussel for example). And its Spalter all the way. I am a massive fan of the hop.

Uerige was exploding with heavy, raw, spalt goodness (in taste, not aroma, and plenty of bittering). It is quite possible the best beer I have ever had. Schlussel is really good too, but spalt is later (aroma and taste, but more gentle). Then Schumacher is the alt that most seem to stereotype - very bitter, no hop flavour, nice malt taste, but smooth and attenuated.

 

[manticle]

Spalt is a hop I've never tried but it is next on my list for this recipe. I'll try it next time without any other hop, much as I love styrians.

 

[felten]

the recipe link got messed up in the edit

 

[manticle]

Try this: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1441

 

[manticle]

Going to try this again in the next couple of weeks but with the vienna malt split 50:50 with munich 1 and with spalt replacing the styrians.

 

[petesbrew]

Going to try this again in the next couple of weeks but with the vienna malt split 50:50 with munich 1 and with spalt replacing the styrians.

All the best Manticle
I'm cracking grain tonight for my latest Alt as well.
Meistertrunk Altbier
A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.55
Anticipated OG: 1.052 Plato: 12.873
Anticipated EBC: 27.0
Anticipated IBU: 51.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
9.0 0.50 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.039 13
81.1 4.50 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.039 3
3.6 0.20 kg. Melanoidin Malt 1.033 69
1.8 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special I Germany 1.036 950
4.5 0.25 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 1.036 34
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15.00 g. Northern Brewer Pellet 9.00 22.0 90 min.
40.00 g. Spalter Spalt Pellet 4.75 28.1 60 min.
10.00 g. Spalter Spalt Whole 4.75 1.2 10 min.

Yeast
-----
White Labs WLP036 Dusseldorf Alt

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Looks and sounds good Manticle. Alt - It's a simple beer and a personal favourite. Vienna is "between" pils and munich - I've done good alts using all three base grains and melanoiden for colour and depth (the lighter the grain base, the more mel). Love using de-bittered Carafa for colour (a little dab will do you). Never used Styrians but love Tettnang (also Perle and Willamette seem to work fine too). Have used spalt but can't remember anything bad about it, so must be good. German yeast is also interchangeable with Irish & Scottish yeast and have made nice ones using those yeasts.

Altbier to me is a lot like saying pale ale - you can get a lot of different quirks in the beer and still keep it within guidelines. The true success in altbier is if it tastes good enough to have another one. Sounds like this one is a winner!

 

[manticle]

While definitely not traditional in an alt as far as I'm aware, styrians bring a lot to so many beer styles (UK, Belgian etc) and are one of the best hops in my opinion - great balance between flavour and aroma, smooth as noble type bitterness.

I love tett but styrians sit equal fave for me.

Slightly OT but fuckit, it's my recipe thread.

As an aside - a lot of people seem to suggest that alts should have only bittering additions but both texts such as Dornbusch's* altbier and brewers who have visited and sampled alts in situ (such as Foles and newguy) suggest that quite a few examples show evidence of flavour and aroma hopping (Dornbusch even talks about dry hopping).

*Dornbusch has some pedigree as a beer/brewing authority but Ron Pattinson sugggests he may be guilty of some non-alt related arseththroughtalking here: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com.au/2010...te-almanac.html

 

[Fatgodzilla]

As an aside - a lot of people seem to suggest that alts should have only bittering additions but both texts such as Dornbusch's* altbier and brewers who have visited and sampled alts in situ (such as Foles and newguy) suggest that quite a few examples show evidence of flavour and aroma hopping (Dornbusch even talks about dry hopping).

I tasted their beers side by side. Diebels Alt is very smooth, with a biscuity malt accent; Schlosser's has a slightly syrupy maltiness; Gatzweiler's is the fruitiest; Hannen spritzy and sharp (this beer has declined in character, and sales, in recent years); Frankenheim light, dry, yeasty and slightly sulphury; and Rhenania slightly thick-tasting. I enjoyed them all, but any of them would have been improved by a little more hop

this is from Michael Jackson's site on Alts. I've no ideas on these particular beers and where Jacko would have wanted the hop (assuming bittering) but it backs up two things - alt is a malt driven ale but you can see the variations in one city's breweries versions .. and if the Beer Hunter says these fine alts needs hops, I reckon Manticle old son, put more hops in where ever you want! Especially aroma hops which won't affect the flavour - by golly, don't you love noble-type hop aroma !

 

[felten]

What about yeast choice, would you always go with the 1007 or maybe try something else?

 

[manticle]

I think the yeast range is quite specific and quite limited from the reading I've done. If I could get whitelabs more easily, I'd give one of those a whirl (although it may be exactly the same strain/blend as 1007). Not sure what else would be suitable.

Love trying new yeasts though so if there's any suggestions....................


1007 is a cracker though.

@Fatz: Cheers mate. Noble hops (and those that fit the bill like styrians and EKG with their low aa and cohumulone etc) seem to get forgotten in an array of super power aa% nuclear bomb fruit salad hops but I love them.

 

[felten]

Thanks for that, I have a sack of munich malt and a pound of styrians so this looks like the perfect style to use them on. Just wondering if there was a yeast that would be suitable for use on lagers as well as altbier, because I'm cheap and don't want to buy both

 

[Wolfman]

Looks the goods Manticle and looks as though I'll be making another of your recipes!
Just a quick question though, can you explain this please:

"Decoct a thick mash portion after hitting 67 and add back for mash out."

Cheers

 

[manticle]

Main mash:

Raise the grain bed to 63 and hold for 10 minutes.
Raise to 67, then take out 1/3 of the mash (some liquid but mainly grain) and place in a pot.
Slowly bring to a boil on the stove, ensuring that the mash does not burn or stick.

Meanwhile the main mash stays at 67 for the remainder of the mash then gets raised to 72 and stays there for 10 minutes.
Take the decocting portion from the stove and slowly add back in till either the mash hits 78 or you have added in all the mash.

If you have decocted mash left over, you can add water to get the temp around 78 and add in with or just before the sparge. If you come up short on temp, raise temp however you have been raising it earlier (whether direct heat, infusion or in my case - immersion element).

@felten - not sure but it would need to be a lager yeast with a bit of character - not super clean/neutral.

 

[Wolfman]

Giving this a go tomz.

Cheers on the explaination.

 

[manticle]

Mine is nearing its diacetyl rest and lagering time so you can try my new version in a few weeks.

 

[Wolfman]

Sweet.

What is the ferment schedule?

 

[manticle]

Ferment around 14 with a 2L active starter (I NC so I take the last bit from the kettle, let the shit drop out overnight, reboil the 2 odd litres I get, cool and add the yeast. When it's actively fermenting, I add the whole lot).

Keep at 14 until you get below 1020, then slowly warm up to 18 or so for a diacetyl rest and to finish off. Leave at ale temps for a week after hitting FG then cold condition for 3 weeks minimum.

 

[manticle]

Made a similar beer but with a more traditional hopping schedule last winter.

I made two batches of the same recipe at different times. One was bottled, one was kegged and the remainder (after a club annual dinner) was bottled.

Both won their categories in the State Championships - entered one as a North German Altbier and the other (CPBF version) as a Dusselforf altbier.

Tweaked recipe:

Altbier

Type: All grain Size: 22 liters
Color: 22 HCU (~12 SRM)
Bitterness: 45 IBU
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 5.2% v/v (4.1% w/w)
Grain: 2.5kg Weyerman Pilsner
1.25kg Weyerman Vienna
1.25kg Weyerman Munich
200g Briess victory
75g Simpsons chocolate
Mash: 70% efficiency
TEMP: 55/62/67/72/78
TIME: 5/10/50/10/10

Decoct at 62 and add back to reach 72
Decoct at 67 and add back to reach 78

Boil: 90minutes, SG 1.036, 32 liters
Hops:25g Spalt (5.7% AA, 60 min.)
25g Tettnanger (3.5% AA, 60 min.)
20g Spalt (5.7% AA, 20 min.)
20g Tettnanger (3.5% AA, 20 min.)
10g Spalt (aroma)
10g Tettnanger (aroma)

2g CaCl2 and 2g CaSO4 + phosphoric acid as required for mash pH
2g CaCl2 and CaSO4 to boil.

WYEAST 1007