Real Low Alcohol Beer

[Nick JD]

Removing the alcohol from beer should be illegal. We need Australian Purity Laws to stop this sacrilege.

:angry:

 

[manticle]

I currently have a brew that I boiled post ferment to experiment with the idea of killing an infection that was visible but had left no nasty taste characteristics. Results so far suggest autolysis is not an immediate and automatic reaction. I added some extra hops in to compensate for the flavouring hops being driven backwards and it is definitely bitter (high aa hop used and new recipe so no good comparison really)

Time may tell differently.

I guess what I'm saying is that boiling of alc might work. To play it on the safe side it might be best to brew an unhopped wort and try and remove as much yeast as possible. My brew had been racked, fined and cold conditioned before I discovered the infection so maybe non autolysis was due to less yeast in suspension.

The other thing I noticed in Ross's imperial mild recipe is that the FG was quite high which looked like maybe fermentation was stopped early. This would mean (I assume) regularish amounts of malt and therefore body and flavour were retained. I don't know how fermentation was stopped but it reads to me like something only a kegger could do.

Certainly not trying to speak as the voice of experience. Myself I'm not really interested in brewing alcoholic beverages with no alcohol. I just posted because I don't want to do any of the other things I know I have to.

 

[kangabill]

As the OP I must say I'm impressed.

I didn't expect to start the debate we've got. So, if I summarize somewhat.

It would be a bugger of a process and unless done in umpty thousand liter vats stirred by Bavarians with Kaiser Wilhelm mustache and lederhosen probably well outside my limited talents. :angry:

I'm interested though in the hopping statements. I certainly don't find Birell over hopped. At least my palate is telling me it's got hops and almost a smooth "honey" sweetness/taste to it. Or is that the aromatic hops (instead of bittering hops?????) <_<

Nevertheless I'll watch the continuing debate with great interest and thank all the brewmisester who are contributing.

My own hops, Hallertau and Hersbrucker are growing as well as the drought will allow and I'll get some flowers in this first year.

Many thanks all. I'll trawl through the responses and see if I can experiment a little with my limited resources. In another life a long while ago I was a laboratory analyst so I'll have a go and do some more Googling.

Have a coldie on me (full strength that is)

 

[cooperplace]

I've brewed my own for some 20 years. But with a medication I'm NOW on any alcohol gives me a raging headache.

Bummer Eh??

BUT after some experimentation I found Coopers "Birell"; supposedly 0.5% alcohol.

Ok... OK .... so it sounds dreadful. Actually it doesn't taste too bad and it doesn't give me a blazing headache.

QUESTION

Using Coopers cans (don't all abuse me) how much malt would I use in 25l to get down that low.
Or should I use a 60l brewer and add 1 or a fraction more 750gm cans to how many Liters in brewer?

Any help would be appreciated. I know it's a sad way to be in but at least I can still pretend it's 100HP real beer <_<

Sorry to hear of you being on such a medication: hopefully a temporary thing.

I routinely make beer with fairly low alcohol: in the 1.5-2% alcohol range. This is all-grain, loaded up with hops, just not as much fermentables. You can make a perfectly nice beer this way with 1.5% alcohol. Fermentation is very quick, overnight even. That's with Windsor yeast, which seems to leave quite a lot of residual sugar. The beer's light, hoppy, you don't get drunk on it nor does it give a hangover.

So I suggest pushing this approach further: more hops, less fermentables. I'm not suggesting that you'll get a prize-winning, balanced ale, but it might still be refreshing and palatable (after all, the hop signature will be there). Worth a try. Maybe 1% will taste fine and not give you a headache.

One problem with boiling off alcohol is: how are you going to measure this? We all use hydrometers and other measures of density, but they won't give you the answer you need. Not many of us have access to a gas chromatograph (like labs use) at home.

Good luck.

Peter.

 

[phinnsfotos]

Testing alcohol is simple enough. Just round up a murder of kindergarten kids, as you're reducing the alcohol just hand the first one a pint and see if they fall over. If they do reduce some more and move onto the second kid, easy.

 

[kangabill]

A thought came to me re lowering volatile levels (AKA in this case "alcohol") in a beer.

In industrial applications the "flash evaporator" is used as the first stage in natural gas processing to drop out heavy ends (C8 and higher) and leave the lighter ends in a gas stream. Stripping higher than Octane out as liquids and leaving the methane, ethane, propane, butane as a gas by explosively decompressing the wet gas stream.

Reversing the process somewhat, if you took a fluid stream, such as beer, compressed it (I do mean compress, say up to 1000 psi) and then under controlled conditions allowed it to rapidly (read almost instantaneously) come down to a much lower pressure, the lighter fractions (alcohol) would gas off, leaving a reduced alcohol beer with the same solids as before. It might mess up the CO2 in the brewed beer but the heavier hop oils should stay in the fluid stream. The alcohol with a BP at about 72 degrees C would flash off as a gas.

I'm probably explaining it a bit clumsily, but it would work.

Thoughts ???

 

[geoffi]

A thought came to me re lowering volatile levels (AKA in this case "alcohol") in a beer.

In industrial applications the "flash evaporator" is used as the first stage in natural gas processing to drop out heavy ends (C8 and higher) and leave the lighter ends in a gas stream. Stripping higher than Octane out as liquids and leaving the methane, ethane, propane, butane as a gas by explosively decompressing the wet gas stream.

Reversing the process somewhat, if you took a fluid stream, such as beer, compressed it (I do mean compress, say up to 1000 psi) and then under controlled conditions allowed it to rapidly (read almost instantaneously) come down to a much lower pressure, the lighter fractions (alcohol) would gas off, leaving a reduced alcohol beer with the same solids as before. It might mess up the CO2 in the brewed beer but the heavier hop oils should stay in the fluid stream. The alcohol with a BP at about 72 degrees C would flash off as a gas.

I'm probably explaining it a bit clumsily, but it would work.

Thoughts ???

Yes. How would you do it at home?

 

[Nick JD]

Bring it up to about 80C while gently stiring for a few hours. Bye bye alcohol (and probably most volitile flavour compounds).

Dry hop for a day or two and then carbonate.

 

[shawnheiderich]

I would try the simple things first then move onto more complicated methods. .5% is very low if you could consider up to 1.5% you could try a 1/2 tin in 23l (OG 1020 ish) make up a massive starter and try and get it to ferment down to 1008 (about 1.5%). Maybe not quite what you are after but could be a good start point, next step double IBU and water down and you get 0.75%.

Just a thought, and possibly out of my brewing experience depth, but I would always go simple then make the process more complicated.

Good Juck

Shawn

 

[Dunno]

I think the idea in the OP is probably the easiest way to go. Using kits, increase the amount of water or only use part of a can to lower the OG or the fermentables in the beer. This will leave you with a waterery and rather flavourless beer. To offset this I would try steeping some specialty grains to increase body and flavour, add some hops to balance the beer.. Using a yeast that finishes high will also help. After a few trial batches I think you could make a decent beer under 1%. I have made a few beers as low as 1.5% just to see if it could be done with any flavour and body in the beer. I brew AG so my process consisted of mashing high and using a lower % of base malt but I think a similar approach with kits will work, it just needs some steeped specialty grains to add the body and flavour back in that you lose by watering it down. I also keg so no extra alcohol added during carbonation, that little bit extra might push the ABV a little too high for you if you bottle.

 

[Kai]

Sorry to hear of you being on such a medication: hopefully a temporary thing.

I routinely make beer with fairly low alcohol: in the 1.5-2% alcohol range. This is all-grain, loaded up with hops, just not as much fermentables. You can make a perfectly nice beer this way with 1.5% alcohol. Fermentation is very quick, overnight even. That's with Windsor yeast, which seems to leave quite a lot of residual sugar. The beer's light, hoppy, you don't get drunk on it nor does it give a hangover.

So I suggest pushing this approach further: more hops, less fermentables. I'm not suggesting that you'll get a prize-winning, balanced ale, but it might still be refreshing and palatable (after all, the hop signature will be there). Worth a try. Maybe 1% will taste fine and not give you a headache.

One problem with boiling off alcohol is: how are you going to measure this? We all use hydrometers and other measures of density, but they won't give you the answer you need. Not many of us have access to a gas chromatograph (like labs use) at home.

Good luck.

Peter.

Actually and now that I think about it, density meters will give you fairly close answer to the numbers you need. Comparing hydrometry and refractometry numbers then plugging them into brew calc software will spit out an approximation of the alcohol present in the beer.

 

[kangabill]

I think I've got what I need.

I'll try the last couple of suggestions re less malt and beefing up after fermentation.

I'll eventually get back and let you know how I went.

Many thanks for all of the informed help.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Cooperplace has a valid point....

You have tried effective soft drink, and you have tried "commercial" light


Who is to say that an AG at 2%, full of the flavour and aroma we crave won't pass through to the keeper?


Fester

 

[Uncle Fester]

Removing the alcohol from beer should be illegal. We need Australian Purity Laws to stop this sacrilege.

:angry:

Australian purity laws lost all face the day we allowed Lion Nathan into our country.

 

[OzMick]

Just had a thought, if one were to encourage yeast growth as opposed to alcohol production by maintaining aeration, you might be able to keep alcohol low but still maintain the same body... Would have to very closely monitor gravity to cut off the air at an appropriate point, and keeping up the air would probably drive off esters and hop oils as would other methods and be more prone to aging, but probably much more doable for the homebrewer if it works. Might be difficult to predict when to cut off air, as the yeast could consume all the sugars quite quickly and just leave you with oxygen saturated beer which would go bad quite quickly. Would be a good reason to prime in bottles with a bit extra sugar, the yeast would mop up a lot of the oxygen and carbonate, at the expense of a little more alcohol, but should still be very low.

Maybe someone doing yeast propagation could be able to decant the yeast off a starter and give feedback on the liquid to say how good/horrible it tastes compared to any other very low alcohol beer? Would be a good experiment to do with the a starter from left over wort decanted from trub on the bottom of kettle, nice small scale test.

 

[petesbrew]

I've brewed my own for some 20 years. But with a medication I'm NOW on any alcohol gives me a raging headache.

Bummer Eh??

BUT after some experimentation I found Coopers "Birell"; supposedly 0.5% alcohol.

Ok... OK .... so it sounds dreadful. Actually it doesn't taste too bad and it doesn't give me a blazing headache.

QUESTION

Using Coopers cans (don't all abuse me) how much malt would I use in 25l to get down that low.
Or should I use a 60l brewer and add 1 or a fraction more 750gm cans to how many Liters in brewer?

Any help would be appreciated. I know it's a sad way to be in but at least I can still pretend it's 100HP real beer <_<

During Dry July last year, a muslim mate brought in some no-alcohol beer. I'm pretty sure it was Haagen. It was actually pretty nice.