Protein rest?

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

This there a method for doing this on gas? Preferably a simple one, or its it beyond Biab on gas.

 

[manticle]

Mash in cooler so your mash is at 52-55, keep it there for 5 minutes (long protein rests at lower temps can be detrimental with most modern malts), then gas it up till you hit your saccharification temperature.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Ok got it. I will need to take out the grain tho then boost the heat? I'm a touch worried about burning the bag on the bottom of the pot.

 

[manticle]

Chuck a cake rack or something in the bottom to keep it off the pot base. Or mash in with less water and use boiling water to up the temp and volume. There are calculators around for working that out.

Otherwise yeah - just lift the bag.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Sorry about the noob question. Just don't want too mess it up

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Ok will do.

 

[manticle]

Noob questions are fine.

 

[Glot]

A very interesting and worthwhile post. I don't think I read one silly comment, even the questions.

 

[Lecterfan]

No need to lift the bag or anything as long as you stir constantly while raising the heat. This is what I always do, is what Thirstyboy and (sorry I have forgotten the username) his counterpart always suggested and it works fine.

I am biab and step mash almost all of my beers by virtue of the fact that I will at the very least go from sacch rest temps to mashout (and this might mean from 64c to 78c which can be a solid 12 or so minutes of stirring the mash through the temp ranges in between).

Cake rack or whatever to lift the bag is probably heaps easier, but I like the hands-on approach anyway. :icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

Spillsmostofit is probably the user you are thinking of.

 

[brewtas]

I do the same as Lecterfan and have never had a problem with it.

 

[Not For Horses]

I sometimes do step mash in my BIAB setup.
I lift the bag as it warms.
The opposite of nature.

 

[Pokey]

I have issues with even heat distribution when heating up my BIAB mash, regular stirring and a gentle heat seem to help.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Ok guys thanks. This is what I've done. First step was a little hot. 58c I stirred the hell out of it and got it to 54c(plus pouring from a height,the shit you pick up in India).stayed at that for ten min. Now it's sitting at 72c. How long at this temp.I was thinking 15 min as that's is around the middle of what I have read.my gheto drag the bag to the side pic is included.


Sorry Edit ;single step infusion at 66c for 60 min between.

 

[recharge]

I really like my bag on a rack as I can keep the bag open and stir the mash whilst raising temps.
I also shut off gas about 2 deg early as temp keeps climbing. This is using kettle + nasa burner.

Rich

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Yep ok mate. 2deg sounds about rite for me as well. Rambo burner. I will get a rack it's not a problem. I'm a Baker but needed to brew to day. I will fix my rack issue next brew.

 

[dr K]

The OP (although not in his OP a few posts down) mentions his interest is in using Rice so this brings up a point that has certainly not been discussed in this thread.
Gelatinisation.
Before your enzymes do their work, whether they be alpha, beta or even omega your cereal needs to be gelatinised. With malted barley and wheat this happens conveniently in the mashing range, with rice however it is higher, in fact the dead land for alpha and particularly beta amalyse. With rice, and indeed corn/maize you need to do a cereal mash, outside the mash at 70C plus unless you use use pre-gelatiinised cereal, flaked rice in this case. All the protein or other rests in the world will do screw all for rice conversion without the higher than mash temp cereal rest.
Oh, that grain of malted barley you cracked before mashing is not entirely starch that requies gelatinisation (though most of it is) but other "things" which may or may not benefit your beer from lower temperature (pre-gelatinisation) steps, with highly modified barley not a lot ...with highly modified wheat somewhat more.

K

 

[manticle]

I thought rice gel temps and alpha optimisation were roughly similar - 66-72 (ish for alpha) and 68-75 for rice? Nonetheless, gelatinising whatever adjunct you choose to add if not already done so is an important point.

Not used much rice so happy to be wrong - just going on reading.

 

[dr K]

Beta-amylase of course plays a part in beer in as well. Sitting next to optimisation is denaturation, Neither happen instantly, but both happen with time, I leave to more learned colleagues to describe the effect of mash density (L:G) on gelatinisation but a thinner mash certainly reduces the denaturation time once the zone is reached.
Thick or thin, starting your mash at and holding for gelatinisation (which Manticle is NOT suggesting) at 68 plus is not a good idea.
We eat a lot of rice at KK, were I to feel I should make a beer with rice, I would simply cook extra and chuck it in !!!

K

 

[manticle]

No definitely not suggesting that. As mentioned I've seldom brewed with rice but all the advice I've seen suggests pre-cooking or cereal mash.
My understanding of the process of starch breakdown is that there are 3 main processes - gelatinisation, liquefaction and saccharification. Without the first two, the third cannot occur. In malted barley, the malting process combined with mashing is sufficient (less modified malts may have required decoction, etc) but with unmalted adjuncts, they need more specific treatment.

Interestingly, contrary to what I wrote before, I have heard of rice sometimes requiring 80+ for gelatinisation which makes more sense in light of your first post.
De Clerck mentions a temp of around 85-90, held, then cooled to around 70-75 with tbe addition of some mashing barley malt (as in hydrated and at mash temp) so the alpha can saccharify the rice starch (cereal mash)