Poll: PH testing

[RelaxedBrewer]

Couple of questions, is there anything different about the beers you have been brewing recently?

Are they all pale hoppy beers?

Are you no chilling?

Do they have a common ingredient (like same hops or hop supplier)?

 

[Hopsta]

60min mash with 5min mash out.
all pale/amber ales, not necessarily hoppy,
ive chilled using counter flow and immersion
variety of ingredients from various suppliers.
variety of equipment too.

i'm convinced it is either water or environmental factors such as a nearby tree with wild yeasts in the pollen.

either way ive covered all bases thanks to the advice in this thread and am all set for my next brew on the weekend. fingers crossed.

 

[Cervantes]

Bought a decent quality hand held meter. Used it 5 times, all mashes at 5.2 pH, within margin of error. It now sits in my cupboard collecting dust and expiring the electrode.
One of the most useless purchases I've ever made for brewing purposes.

Similar for me. Must drag it out again and check my next brew as I've recently changed my water source.

 

[Kingrat]

Dunno if it has changed, but the current version of EZ Water allows you to select putting all your additions in the mash, or splitting between mash/sparge.

After doing some reading I've recently decided that it's best to put them all in the mash and then acidify your sparge water (and I've bought phosphoric acid for that).

Kaiser, where did you source the phosphoric acid from? I assume it is food grade.

 

[manticle]

Not sure who else but I've bought both lactic and phosphoric from grain and grape previously
Need more, LHBS doesn't stock so GG will be my default.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

You can buy "pH up" and "pH down" from hydroponic shops.

 

[Hopsta]

3 brews in since I started this thread and.... The off flavour is GONE! everyone of them are winners. Couldn't be happier. Some changes I implemented based on your feedback.
I boil the brew water prior to mash then let it cool.
I use bruin water/ezewater to calculate water treatments.
I test with pH meter.
I brew in the laundry now rather than out on the back deck.
I no chill every brew.
I tried no sparge (BM) but prefer to sparge so have gone back to it with out any problems.

One or more of these things has been the cure. In any case I'm stoked that I've now got around 100 tallies bottle conditioning.

Cheers everyone for your help.

 

[Dan Pratt]

I jus read through the thread, brewing inside is the answer. I always brewed inside then we moved house and I brewed outside and lost 5 batches. Went back to brewing inside and the problem went away.

You have learnt a bunch of new things about mash water pH etc which is helpful but the pH of your water is not why. Now to start kegging

 

[manticle]

Either infection from local environs (negated by shifting brewing site) or reduced chloramines from boiling strike water - although your description of the issue matches infection rather than chlorephenols in my experience.

 

[Hopsta]

I jus read through the thread, brewing inside is the answer. I always brewed inside then we moved house and I brewed outside and lost 5 batches. Went back to brewing inside and the problem went away.

You have learnt a bunch of new things about mash water pH etc which is helpful but the pH of your water is not why. Now to start kegging

i kegged many years ago, 9 kegs always full, always on rotation, dual tap kegerator etc... i found it was too easy and tempting to pour a pint every time i walked past. i put on too much weight. switched back to bottling, lost the weight. i only have a few tallies chilled at a time.. have 2 mini kegs on order as part of the bulk buy but thats more for picnics bbqs.

 

[malt junkie]

Just did my first brew away from "infected environs", I feel for you, a lot of bloody hard work eliminating and isolating the cause. I have brewed in 4 states and probably 8 different houses over many years. So I was fairly confident in my methods, but even so after tipping 3 or 4 batches that confidence takes a hit. Glad to see you come out the other side.

 

[postmaster]

Hoping someone can help me on this.
Coliban Water report. Looks like the water is SOFT ?
They do not measure separately - Calcium, Magnesium. They are accounted for in Alkalinity and Hardness measurements.
My mash PH is a bit high 5.7
Question ?
Is there anyway to work out the Calcium and Magnesium measurements from this report.
I can then put figures into a water program to get the correct results.
[SIZE=10.5pt] Average [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Min [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Max[/SIZE]

​

[SIZE=10.5pt]Alkalinity (mg CaCO3/L) 19.7 12 31 [/SIZE]

Ca Calcium Not Measured

Mg Magnesium Not Measured

Hardness (mg CaCO3/L) 28.2 15 68

​

pH 7.4 7 8.2

​

​

[SIZE=10.5pt]Sulphate (mg/L) 20.8 12 43[/SIZE]

​

[SIZE=10.5pt]Chloride (mg/L) 9.65 5 19[/SIZE]

​

[SIZE=10.5pt]Sodium (mg/L) 10.7 4.4 23[/SIZE]

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

If you have a look at data for surface waters in your area (eg here: http://data.water.vic.gov.au/monitoring.htm?ppbm=websw&rs&3&rskr_org) the Ca: Mg ratios appear to be around 3:1 by weight which is 1.8:1 by molarity.

We can combine this with the average values in your report to get the data you need..

The hardness value calculates to a total divalent cation content of 0.28 uM, conveniently that splits to 0.18 uM Ca and 0.1 uM Mg at the above ratio. Convert back to weight to give 7.2 mg/l Ca and 2.4 mg/l Mg.

Reality check: convert the other cation (Na) to molarity (0.47 uM), multiply all cations by valence and add them up, result 1.03 uEq.

Convert the alkaliniity to [C03 ] (0.2 uM), convert the other anions to molarity, multiply all anions by valence and add them up, result 1.10 uEq.

Good enough for jazz, the variance is probably due to the averaging used.


Edit: I took out the ionic state indicators (eg the 2+ on the calcium) to try to make things clearer.

 

[jhsbaker]

Hi Hopsta,

Great discussion. I think a through a process of elimination you can sort this out:

- If not already done replace everything that touches cooled wort (eg no chill cubes / fermenter / hoses / etc) to ensure you don't have any bugs living in (possibly invisible to the eye) scratches
- Get water from a different source, pass through a carbon filter and adjust with bru'n water based on the water report. If you use distilled water go with 0 for your initial water estimates
- Ensure you are managing your yeast properly (it sounds like you are an experienced brewer, maybe you can already rule this out)

If you do both of these and still have the same problem maybe you need to be looking at your process, equipment and ingredients. A pH meter is a nice thing to have if it is reasonable quality to be able to rely on it, it is calibrated and you use it properly... if not you might be leading yourself astray. I would suggest that if you use bru'n water properly with the water report for local water or distilled water you should be close enough that pH will be within acceptable limits.

 

[rude]

I use a ph meter AD12 but once you dial the beer you are making in you could leave the test out
but it just eats away at me so I test

I find Brun water very good

I aim for 5.3 for my pale beers & 5.4 ,5.5 the darker I go but still playing around with it

I also brew outside but no chill which is easier to control sanitation for me

Hopsta you are a fussy bugger tipping those beers I used to get the astringency but would still drink them :unsure:

 

[checkers]

Guys I've been having exactly the same problem, yet I check my PH, make sure my mash is at 5.2 and I sparge with ph5.2 water at roughly 25c in a homemade 1v vessel like a grain father... I'd love to know why I'm getting this horrible bitterness and poor hop flavour and aroma.

 

[manticle]

You sparge at 25 deg C or you measure pH at 25?

How do you ensure mash pH is at 5.2?
Can you describe the bad aroma and flavour, how long it' s been discernible and what changes in ingredients and/or process with which it coincides?

 

[Hopsta]

Hi Hopsta,

Great discussion. I think a through a process of elimination you can sort this out:

- If not already done replace everything that touches cooled wort (eg no chill cubes / fermenter / hoses / etc) to ensure you don't have any bugs living in (possibly invisible to the eye) scratches
- Get water from a different source, pass through a carbon filter and adjust with bru'n water based on the water report. If you use distilled water go with 0 for your initial water estimates
- Ensure you are managing your yeast properly (it sounds like you are an experienced brewer, maybe you can already rule this out)

If you do both of these and still have the same problem maybe you need to be looking at your process, equipment and ingredients. A pH meter is a nice thing to have if it is reasonable quality to be able to rely on it, it is calibrated and you use it properly... if not you might be leading yourself astray. I would suggest that if you use bru'n water properly with the water report for local water or distilled water you should be close enough that pH will be within acceptable limits.

All sorted James, post #47 Got 4 brews down problem free. I believe it was a combination of issues contributing to the off flavours hence it was so hard to pin down. Either way, i now have all bases covered! Cheers!

 

[Ditchnbeer]

I like this topic and think that if you want to move from making good beer to making great beer then starting measuring & adjusting mash pH.

After some initial investment and learning, checking pH can become just a part of your brew day, doesn't take too long and I believe will help your beer.

I usually:

• adjust sparge water in HLT to < pH 6 using lactic acid (only 1.5 mls for me)
• add my salts at dough in and measure pH 15 minutes later
• measure pH at same temp that meter is calibrated at (room temp / ~20 degrees for me). Dont stick yr pen tester in mash temps!
• cal meter before every use (use 4.0 and 7.0 buffers to set scale correctly

 

[checkers]

You sparge at 25 deg C or you measure pH at 25?

How do you ensure mash pH is at 5.2?
Can you describe the bad aroma and flavour, how long it' s been discernible and what changes in ingredients and/or process with which it coincides?

Sparge at 25c roughly... Room temp really.. Measure ph at room temp also but sometimes fill up keggle with hot water out of bath if I'm in hurry then measure ph at that (roughly 55c) is that bad?

The aroma is not bad and indeed smells in accordance to the hop I have used but just not pungent like ripping into a can of pirate life or something. I'm sort of getting horrible bitterness with maximum late hop additions with minimal flavour and aroma. I just keg hopped a galaxy pale ale with 100g of galaxy and it really didn't add much aroma. The beer definitely got more bitter and less enjoyable though.