Poll: How Do You Manage Ph In Your Mash?

[drsmurto]

I use salts, mainly calcium sulphate and calcium chloride, to adjust the pH in the mash tun.

I'm using rainwater that i tested (a few years ago now) so i know what i am starting with (<0.1 ppm of any of the brewing salts).

I have been using a few profiles over the past year for different beer styles and am making a few adjustments to those after doing some reading in the last week (Principles of Brewing Science).

Doing a run of pilsners with 100% base malt to get an idea of what is happening in the tun with and without salt additions and next up, acid additions.

 

[Bribie G]

Would that be - presumably - to simulate the acid rest that was used in the old days in Plzen as described by Palmer? I'm interested in doing a "genuine" bo pils now I've got RO water. What and how much salts would you need to add to RO to simulate the acid rest if just using salts and not acidulated malt?

 

[dr K]

Municipal water supplies in Australia are treated and part of that treatment is pH adjustment.
In order to protect their infrastructure the water is always mildly alkaline.
Fret not brewers, for the phosphates and such in your mash from the grain will buffer the pH to that magical number so for mash pH you generally do not need to do anything (the exception is if the pH for all sorts of reasons gets too high for a short period in which case acidulated malt or mineral acid may be required if you are making a very pale beer and you test your pH )
Whilst brewing salts may have a minor effect in the qty we use them on pH they are generally used to optimise your brew.
Ca is great but if you don't use it your brew won't fail. It helps in the mash and it helps in the ferment, simple rule of thumb, CaCl is smoothing and helps malt, CaSO4 brings up the hop character and CaCO3 is prettty much compulsory in stouts. Always add to the mash. There are numerous tools to help you determine what to use.
Many a great beer has been made without them.

K

 

[dent]

Would that be - presumably - to simulate the acid rest that was used in the old days in Plzen as described by Palmer? I'm interested in doing a "genuine" bo pils now I've got RO water. What and how much salts would you need to add to RO to simulate the acid rest if just using salts and not acidulated malt?

The acid rest is too weak to be any practical use in adjusting your mash pH. One thing to remember is that while pilsen water is soft and relatively mineral free, it isn't necessarily ideal for brewing, even within that style. Even with 100% RO water you will likely find the pH is still too high, since there is no Calcium or other useful ions to react with the mash to get those good H+ ions in solution.

With my RO water I will cut it with some (20% ish) filtered tap water to add trace minerals and some buffering capacity - one way or the other - then adjust pH as per my previous post. You can use acidulated malt by the same procedure too - or simply add lactic acid since that's all it has in it anyhow, and you're not on German soil. I prefer the calcium as it works with the mash itself, and doesn't leave the rest of the lactic molecule in your mash. I'm sure there are plenty of commerical breweries who are happy with it though.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Have a read of this article by Steve (see attachment), great guide on using salts and also has a Melbourne water report :beerbang:

View attachment key_20concepts_20in_20water_20treatment.pdf

 

[unrealeous]

...minerals are always calculated on total water, irrelevant of evap rate, final volume etc.

I might throw out another opinion as this is not what I do.

When getting the ph of the mash correct - I make my salt additions for the total mash water only. Now perhaps my process is a little different - but I heat my total mash water in the mash tun up to strike temp (recirulated through a heater), and so there is plenty of time to add the salts and ensure they dissolve properly. I thus only have to calculate the salts for the mashing volume. This then spends over an hour mashing the grains, then I sparge using unsalted water.

Obviously cuts down on the total salts in the final beer - while maintaining the correct ph range during mashing.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I do exactly what unrealous does - this means I can have "more" salts in the mash for pH control, without that necessarily translating to too high a ppm of the salts in the final beer.

I always put a drop or two of lactic acid in the sparge water to drop it just under pH 6; and if mash pH is too high with the highest amount of salts I am willing to use for a given beer - then the rest of the adjustment is made with the same lactic acid.

Its all pretty easy with Melbourne water though, a teaspoon of either CaCl or CaS04 and mostly the job is done - As DrK pointed out, you can make a fine beer with no adjustment at all in most cases, so I try to keep mine minimal and simple.

 

[manticle]

I add a small amount of salts to the mash and a small amount to the kettle (kettle addition is flavour profile related not pH related).

Very approximate, based on water calcs for a medium coloured beer using Melbourne water. I've checked pH using strips so accuracy isn't amazing and I've run the additions through EZ water calculator and they seem to be on target.

Flavour additions make a difference to my palate which is my main concern.

Calcium sulphate and Calcium Chloride. One day I'll measure using more accurate equipment and see if lighter beers need an acid rest, acidulated malt or acid addition. Maybe a Boh pils this winter.

 

[drsmurto]

Would that be - presumably - to simulate the acid rest that was used in the old days in Plzen as described by Palmer? I'm interested in doing a "genuine" bo pils now I've got RO water. What and how much salts would you need to add to RO to simulate the acid rest if just using salts and not acidulated malt?

Since you use the ezy water calculator you can plug in the salt additions using that.

100% base malt using RO water (which my rainwater is close enough to for calculation purposes) the mash pH will be ~6.

I aimed for a mash pH of 5.5 so added 5g of CaCl2 and 5g of CaSO4 in 35L of water*. Mash pH was as predicted, 5.5.

My next pilsner i am going to use only phosphoric acid to adjust the pH to 5.5 and compare the results.

The pilsner on tap currently used only rainwater and no adjustments of any kind. I didn't check the pH so can only guess it was likely to be 6.

I did note a big change in the hot break formation and the clarity of the hot wort after whirlpooling when adjusting the pH using the salts. Wort was clear whereas without the salts the wort remains cloudy. It also took a few weeks after adding polyclar for it to clear at the end of lagering.

Will be interesting to taste the results of these experiments.

* I make up my water the day before so i add the salts to 35L of water and then fill the HLT for the mash and sparge. Using the ezywater calculator you need to tell it you are only using a % of the salts for both the mash and sparge.

 

[bradsbrew]

* I make up my water the day before so i add the salts to 35L of water and then fill the HLT for the mash and sparge. Using the ezywater calculator you need to tell it you are only using a % of the salts for both the mash and sparge.

I have been reading alot about this lately and assumed you should add grains into mash check pH then adjust. Am I missing something here or does using the calculator cover that. Just want to get my head around it before diving in to water adjustments.

Cheers

 

[tommygun]

Have a read of this article by Steve (see attachment), great guide on using salts and also has a Melbourne water report :beerbang:

Interesting read, thanks for posting it up. I like the the thought of making stock solutions to make adding salts that bit easier.

I've always left off measuring pH of my mash but I think I'll have to start doing so seeing how rapidly efficiency drops with any pH above 5.4.

Tom.

 

[drsmurto]

I have been reading alot about this lately and assumed you should add grains into mash check pH then adjust. Am I missing something here or does using the calculator cover that. Just want to get my head around it before diving in to water adjustments.

Cheers

Before diving into the world of brewing water chemistry i used mains water which already had the salts dissolved into it.

Doing it this way makes sense to me. I want to adjust a water source and see how that affects the mash pH, not add salts/acids to the mash tun itself. It also makes the brewday simpler. My water is ready for me and is no different than if you were to take it out of the tap.

I don't think there is a wrong or a right way of going about this. I like my method.

The key point is that you check the mash pH. If it doesn't agree with what you expect/calculate then you can record that piece of data and make adjustments the next time (or add more salts/acid to the tun if you wish). For me this is about taking a simpler approach to water chemistry. If my mash pH is way out then i will have to make a change but this is likely due to a mistake in the calculations (or ballsing up the weighing out of the salts) somewhere rather than the mash pH not behaving as expected.

Standard Australian mains water will more often than not get you close to, if not inside the mash pH window. So if you are using mains water it's a small adjustment, not a big one. Rainwater, RO water, distilled water are a different story.

Another key point is that you need to be able to measure your brewing salts with an accuracy of at least 0.1g. +/-1g is a big, big difference.

All the brewing salts you will use dissolve in cold water other than CaCO3 which you do add to the mash tun. You can get CaCO3 to dissolve after you have added the other salts (CaSO4, CaCl2) that will reduce the pH of the water but it's a slow and tedious process that only a mad scientist would relish.

My musings as i wait for the mash to finish....
DrSmurto

 

[schooey]

I think there is/needs to be a distinction here between managing mash pH and adding salts to the mash/boil. The water here in Newcastle is fairly well within the pH range, according to my digital pH meter (yes, I've calibrated it with buffer).

However, according to the Hunter Water details for a general sample of water around the joint here, it is defficient in some minerals that I may want to add to some specific beers. Therefore I juggle with different brewing salts to get as close to a desired water profile as I can whilst maintaining the pH in the desired range.

So in my case I'm managing a water profile while trying to maintain a ph in a happly place, not managing the pH.

 

[brando]

I'm surprised that with over 100 votes in, nobody has selected acid rest.

 

[raven19]

I'm surprised that with over 100 votes in, nobody has selected acid rest.

In my current brewing level with the RIMS I could use an acid rest, but I think I would lose a lot of body in the time it takes to ramp up to a normal mash temp of around 66. Enter the decoction?

Or add the spec malts in afterwards... hmmm that could be an option!

* From Palmer (Linky), this to me reads at 30 - 53 degrees celcius for an acid rest.

 

[brando]

Bit of a bump for this post, and a question...

... for those who use citric acid, how much do you add roughly?

Certainly don't want any flavours coming through to the finished beer. I'm thinking about starting with about 1/2 teaspoon of the supermarket stuff, then work up from there (in pale beers, and if need be).

Thoughts on this??