Politics

[Liam_snorkel]

Ducati - BER did employ a lot of people, but what cost? It may be that by diverting resources from other parts of the economy where the dollars would have been used for more value-added production, there has been a net reduction in wealth and employment. Google "broken window fallacy". In this case, you are the window repairer and if we go around breaking lots of windows as a job creation scheme, you will have lots of work, but at net cost to wealth and employment.

Can you clarify what the broken window is in this case? People (resources in your words) were diverted from the dole queue, not other parts of the economy. At my workplace the small to medium commercial projects and large residential projects typical of what we were working on pre-GFC (not completely, but mostly) dried up. The national buildplan projects plugged that gap for a couple of years. Things now seems to be back to where they were, which is great.
Larger firms still struggled in this period though.

 

[Dave70]

And yes I am a drunk....I refuse to attend the meetings

The first step is admitting you're a drunk.
And in line with my methods, the last step.
Carry on.


Oops, better stay OT.

Australian politics is ******* weaksause.
This is how you get shit done.

http://youtu.be/U3DHKni1mu8

 

[philmud]

The first step is admitting you're a drunk.
And in line with my methods, the last step.
Carry on.


Oops, better stay OT.

Australian politics is ******* weaksause.
This is how you get shit done.

http://youtu.be/U3DHKni1mu8

I was worried there'd be no Taiwan, but there was Taiwan. If this was how we did things, the LNP would wipe the floor with Labor. I can't think of one current ALP politician who looks like they could blue. I suppose someone could handle Pyne.

 

[GuyQLD]

Dave, I'll admit my grasp of statistics was never very strong.

Stu, I can neither confirm or deny that myself or any of my colleagues considered that to be or not be a political statement.

stm, some would argue violence can be considered a political tactic. Fortunately I don't think anyone here is of that persuasion.

To be honest I've been mostly avoiding this thread because I pretty much expected it do devolve into typical "welfare" bashing fairly quickly. The entitlement culture in Australia saddens me somewhat. I've spent almost 10 years in the welfare and social services area and I get a bit touchy about some of the typical "dole bludger" comments I see slung around.

I also get somewhat tired of people complaining about the public sector - In case you hadn't noticed but both federal and state public sectors have been investing (odd choice of word I'll admit) in finding efficiencies and downsizing fairly substantially over the last couple of years In fact most had agreements to find annual efficiencies in their departments long before the GFC and those still exist. If you paid any attention to the last budget you'll find there's actually targeted measures aimed at further reducing the costs of most agencies and departments. There's also been multiple changes to various parts of welfare and social services starting as early as 2006 to encourage greater participation (yes, economically) and moving people from pensions to allowances (which cost less).

As Stu has already mentioned, the dole is a pathetic amount of money and yet we seem to ignore the "middle class" welfare that is actually a scary amount of the population. Family Tax Benefit, Child Care, Baby Bonus.... Because these are the "kick backs" we enjoy as "working class"... And we pay tax so we're entitled to something right? It would be a brave government who abolished these payments but if you look at it objectively, why do they exist?

I suppose in a lot of other facets I'd be considered right wing; but a country without some social policy is just asking for problems. We already know that social inclusion and education reaps massive benefits as far as social and economic participation and reduces future reliance on services (where possible). Sometimes you HAVE to make an investment in people.

As to anything else in this thread, all tin foil hats aside I simply don't consider myself informed enough to have an opinion.

(I'm probably a very small minority, at least around these parts... but we did agree to that no violence rule right?)

 

[kalbarluke]

School halls/canteens - most of the work came a long time after the economic dip and therefore also had little effect, other than more waste. Clearly, educational outcomes continued to worsen despite all the billions spent, otherwise they wouldn't still be talking about it (Gonski). But it did have the benefit of proving that just spending more money on schools does not mean that students are better educated which means that the Gonski billions will also be wasted.

This view about the construction of school halls being "waste" annoys me somewhat. I live in a rural area and work at the local high school. Our hall was constructed in 1985 and since its construction was the only suitable multipurpose hall in the town. It was a very important part of our community. It was so important that booking in times for its use out of school time was difficult. Often after school programs/sports/dances/ceremonies/functions/etc clashed and some had to be cancelled. It also has obsolete technology and is starting to show sign of wear and tear.

During the stimulus program two more halls were constructed in the town (and the surrounding shire) and it has transformed not only the schools but our community. My daughter attends one of the schools that had a hall built and it has made a massive difference to the school. Having the extra halls allows more programs and activities to occur in our town and improves the way of life for many people in my community. I know of many other rural communities where this has also been the case. Not everything constructed in a school is about "educational outcomes".

I know there was some "waste" in terms of dodgy buildings from the program, but I think these were a few in a couple of hundred. The media, of course, focussed on the negatives and totally ignored the huge benefits that came from the stimulus program, but because these benefits were not necessarily fiscal and are difficult to measure they were deemed a failure. But, to link my rant to the OP, I guess that's politics.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

...and on a lighter note:

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Victor looks particularly pleased with his bumming.

 

[philmud]

@GuyQLD - thanks for fleshing out your comment. Helps that I agree with everything you said, but still...

How about a more positive note? Current/recent pollies you admire?

Me: I like pollies who have a whiff of courage about them. In particular ones who'll cross the floor (so, none from the ALP - one of my main gripes with the party). Petro Georgiou (spelling?) is one, even old Bananaby Joyce is another. I've also admired Oakschott and Windsor this term, I think they'll both leave parliament with a clear conscience, and will feel as though they made the most of the opportunity they were given. I realise not everyone (especially their constituents) would agree. I also like Nick Xenaphon, and while I disagree with almost all of his politics, Steve Fielding impressed me with the conviction of his beliefs.

While he's a mad old homophobic dick, I also get the sense that Bob Katter believes what he says. Sometimes that's a very rare thing in politics.

 

[labels]

My local area. One school had a new school hall but it's gone, They've just knocked down the school. Didn't get a lot of use. Second case, a local junior primary had a lot of upgrading and new fences and stuff. That's due to be shut down shortly.

See, the problem is the BER was a federal scheme but schools are run by the state government, not the private ones obviously but, the state government would have known these schools were on the cards long before they spent the money and still let it go ahead. It is absolute total disregard for tax payers money, state government keeping secret about these closures for political reasons knowing that the millions spent was going to trashed within a couple of years. It's sad really, very very sad.

Taxes, easy come, easy go, it's just cheap money to them.

 

[Dave70]

...and on a lighter note:

Best bum screenshot via snorkel.

I guess all his blue ties were at the dry cleaners. (Rudds, not bums) Anyway, wherefore art that rude prick? (bum, not Rudd) He's just a supercilious cockhead (Rudd), not bum (generally).

 

[browndog]

rudd the Kakoda survivor, what a ******* arsehole. He leaves Abbott in the shade.

 

[AndrewQLD]

rudd the Kakoda survivor, what a ******* arsehole. He leaves Abbott in the shade.

Yes, that was a pretty arrogant and ignorant comment he made.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

"shit happens"

 

[seamad]

I think mark latham was on the money, a once in a lifetime egomaniac, couldn't distill rudds character more eloquently.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

As Rowy pointed out earlier, no one ever said politicians had taste:

 

[philmud]

According to Joe Hockey, Rudd shouldn't have survived Kokoda

 

[Dave70]

I have to say, Joe seems to have whipped / or been whipped, himself into shape somewhat.


Mmmm, all you can eat fundraiser..

 

[Liam_snorkel]

he had gastric band surgery

 

[Dave70]

he had gastric band surgery

He must have been to busy to stop eating.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

a little piece of commentary which ties in with the Keating video I posted on the first page of this thread:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/liberal-partys-best-bet-switch-to-turnbull-20130715-2q01y.html