Politics

[Rowy]

Abbott's wall punch got **** all attention in the scheme of things - certainly much less than Mark Latham's transgressions when he was opposition leader. And, If you think that menu never left the kitchen, you're naive - wait staff have attested to that fact, but have been largely ignored by the main stream media. There's a simple reason the media, particularly the Murdoch media, favour the coalition - their policies serve them better.
Edit: Also, the Ashby story isn't about Slipper. He's just the idiot who provided a platform for the underhanded shit. Marr isn't particularly kind to Slipper in the story. The story is about the nefarious way that Brough is willing to pursue his political ambition, and the grubby way the LNP are prepared to close ranks around him.

When you want to talk about the unseating of a first term PM we'll discuss grubby politics. Or how about the preselection for the seat of Batman. The good news s the juicy stuff about Kevvy will wait until about 2 weeks out from polling day............watch this space.

 

[Rowy]

Abbott's wall punch got **** all attention in the scheme of things - certainly much less than Mark Latham's transgressions when he was opposition leader. And, If you think that menu never left the kitchen, you're naive - wait staff have attested to that fact, but have been largely ignored by the main stream media. There's a simple reason the media, particularly the Murdoch media, favour the coalition - their policies serve them better.
Edit: Also, the Ashby story isn't about Slipper. He's just the idiot who provided a platform for the underhanded shit. Marr isn't particularly kind to Slipper in the story. The story is about the nefarious way that Brough is willing to pursue his political ambition, and the grubby way the LNP are prepared to close ranks around him.

Please link to the quotes from the wait staff present on the day who said the menu went around.

 

[philmud]

Please link to the quotes from the wait staff present on the day who said the menu went around.

Here's a screen grab that was doing the rounds on twitter. When I'm not on my phone I'll try and track down the actual comment. Obviously her saying this doesn't make it true, but an unbiased media would have pursued the angle. I'm inclined to believe the waitress over the restaurant owner - after all, to the best of my knowledge she has no political affiliation, whereas he does.

Edit: probably not a strong source - it seems that following that comment the media spoke to the restaurant who denied Sascha Taylor ever worked there (who knows? Maybe that was a lie). In any case, I think on balance the probability has to lie with the menu being distributed. Notice no one has produced the "real" menu?

 

[philmud]

When you want to talk about the unseating of a first term PM we'll discuss grubby politics. Or how about the preselection for the seat of Batman. The good news s the juicy stuff about Kevvy will wait until about 2 weeks out from polling day............watch this space.

No argument from me here - As I mentioned in an earlier post, grubby, undemocratic ALP practices prompted me to quit my union. I just happen to think the LNP are the worse of the two major parties.

 

[labels]

Some points. I was not suggesting that government workers don't pay tax the same as everyone else, of course they do, we know that. Government workers get paid from general revenue and their tax is returned to general revenue so it becomes a closed system reliant on outside revenue (ie) private enterprise. And I am well aware they spend their money into private enterprise that has a positive impact.
When private enterprise hits recession, we re-evaluate our business, the sole purpose being survival. Spending less, paying down debt and reducing wastage to as close to zero as possible rank highly. The exact opposite of the Government. When we're in recession we make less money, lots less and guess what? a shit load less tax is paid. Back to the government workers and their apparant immunity to the recession, just like the government. At the moment world wide interest rates are low so government borrowings are cheap to keep this cycle of spending going. When it goes up the borrowings become unsustainable, more tax is required. But where from? Private enterprise has done it's job, paying down debt, restucturing, running lean etc.
Some businesses don't survive or re-evaluate. Simplot, Ford, IBM, Holden, British Aerospace and they quit out. One of the reasons of course, is as fast as private enterprise try to adjust to the recession the government loads more committments upon us, increased super for example. In the good times - go for it but they could not have picked a worse time. The amount of money in the system does not change upwards, downwards in fact in recession. It just gets shared amongst less people.
@practicalfool, you're a bit off with your analogy but somewhat on cue. That is adjusting to the times not pretending they don't exist.

The labor Gvt has made some bad moves at the wrong time, NBN - 35 billion, schools 14billion I think they said, and so on. Pink batts, school halls, cash for clunkers. Mistakes are still being made. Special consideration for the auto industry. Hell we have two 100% US owned car makers and one 100% owned Japanese company. Small business could easily suck up a good majority of the lay offs if they stopped seeing us as a neverending cash cow and gave us a bit of a heave up, even if it's just cutting over regulation and red tape - no hand outs.

This country could do better, should have done better and the reason it isn't is bad government policy or good policy at the wrong time. I suggest Labor voters should try and look past the glamour of Kevin Rudd and vote for a party that represents your values not the charisma of the leader. Same for coalition voters, you're not voting for Abbot you're voting for the Coalition.

-Steve

 

[Liam_snorkel]

"The labor Gvt has made some bad moves at the wrong time, NBN - 35 billion, schools 14billion I think they said, and so on. Pink batts, school halls, cash for clunkers."

Clunkers? I dont follow. NBN will pay for itself many times over. School halls were a stimulus measure (kept me directly employed and fuckloads of other people) as were the pink bats. The failure of the pink bats was lack of safety regulations and hasty implementation which was required at the time.

 

[labels]

"The labor Gvt has made some bad moves at the wrong time, NBN - 35 billion, schools 14billion I think they said, and so on. Pink batts, school halls, cash for clunkers."

Clunkers? I dont follow. NBN will pay for itself many times over. School halls were a stimulus measure (kept me directly employed and fuckloads of other people) as were the pink bats. The failure of the pink bats was lack of safety regulations and hasty implementation which was required at the time.

The cash or clunkers was a scheme where you get a minimum value for your old car irrespective of it's condition so you can go buy a new car. The NBN take-up rate has been extremely poor in areas where it's been rolled out, it's not paying for itself yet and could well be decades into the future if, and when it does. Hence, not against the idea, - the timing is wrong, people are just not spending money. Sure, many people did get employed in the schools halls scheme but could it have been better? More public housing is an example IMO where it could have done more good. It was also focused on a single industry. My business had no benefit at all and it is doubtful and unmeasurable whether it had any secondary benefit. Pinks batts was a failure because it was rorted and hence the safety problems with amateurs chasing a dollar. Again it was focused on a single industry and had minimal broad community effect from the point of being a stimulus. An across the board stimulus for all business would have been a better option. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Yeah, your position does make sense. The pink batts scheme was hastily implemented hence the rorting. Re the school halls, it's unfortunate that your industry wasn't directly affected, but they had to pick something which would employ a broad base of people. Regarding the NBN I'm not sure what other way there is to do it. Do it once (replace the copper) and do it right. I work from home a coule of days a week and operating over a VPN is pretty painful (upload speeds are prohibitive) - we have reached the limit of what copper can handle. It makes me think back to 10 years ago dealing with dial up. Ten years prior to that the net was purely for universities, geeks & enthusiasts. In a decade people are going to look back on us today and wonder how we dealt with it.

 

[philmud]

Was the Krudd money "across the board" enough for you? I realise it wasn't popular with some on account of how irresponsibly it could could be spent, but spent it was - mostly in retail no doubt but the flow on effect of effective stimulus money is that it stimulates. That's also why Liam's benefit from the school halls scheme was of benefit to other businesses and industries. I assume he spent much of the money he made, at the supermarket, cafe, pub, LHBS. FWIW I agree that the school halls and pink bats programs were poorly administrated, but they were sound ideas that provided benefit far more broadly than the industries the Government chose to germinate the stimulus.

I also want to point out a major flaw in your logic about the public service/tax revenue closed loop. It's not a closed loop at all because public servants spend the money that they don't feed directly back into the tax system. I'm not sure what business you're in, but conceivably a public servant has directly or indirectly been a customer of yours (if not, that doesn't weaken the logic), if they were, you made a profit from the money they spent and therefore created wealth/expanded the economy. Money is not a fixed resource, it is made as well as exchanged, so public servants contribute significantly to wealth creation.

 

[manticle]

Closed system in pure socialist theory maybe. As I mentioned before - governments invest and subsidise and therefore are a significant contributor to wealth generation.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The whole pink batt thing came down fly-by-nighters cashing in to make a quick buck. The majority of the installers had never been long term insulation installers.

Case in point. Where I live there was one company who where used car dealers ( and dodgy ones ) . They bought a fleet of shitbox vans etc and cheap ins from china. Then undercut everyone else and when the scheme ended they kicked up a stink and wanted the gov to pay for their fleet and un used indulation. These pricks even made it on the national news when they went to Canberra to whiinge....they actually managed to get Rudd with them on TV news outside parliament. u

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Which reminds me. My carport has half a dozen rolls of batts in it because the scheme was cancelled in between when they were delivered and were supposed to be installed. Anyone in bris want to do it? The work is hard but the pay is shit.

 

[manticle]

Or to quote Bernard Black: the pay is low but the work is hard.

 

[Dave70]

The whole pink batt thing came down fly-by-nighters cashing in to make a quick buck. The majority of the installers had never been long term insulation installers.

Nothing wrong with a quick buck, they're the best bucks. But precisely what happens when you get when a a bunch of muppet's with zero business acumen attempting to administer a scheme that blind Freddy could have seen would turn into a clusterfuck of rorting.




Garrets move to politics was actually a cunning ruse to shift the focus away the fact he bankrupted Midnight Oil after the boys let him handle the books..
(allegedly)

 

[Rowy]

Here's a screen grab that was doing the rounds on twitter. When I'm not on my phone I'll try and track down the actual comment. Obviously her saying this doesn't make it true, but an unbiased media would have pursued the angle. I'm inclined to believe the waitress over the restaurant owner - after all, to the best of my knowledge she has no political affiliation, whereas he does.
Edit: probably not a strong source - it seems that following that comment the media spoke to the restaurant who denied Sascha Taylor ever worked there (who knows? Maybe that was a lie). In any case, I think on balance the probability has to lie with the menu being distributed. Notice no one has produced the "real" menu?

I have intimate knowledge of this matter. She never worked there so I accept your apology. The media did pursue the story and it came to adead end when they found out from sources other than Joe Richards that she had never worked there. Shoud maybe even edit or delete your post. I also know the restaurant owner. He has held functions for both parties. In fact I have personally seen a number of present and past Labor luminaries at the joint. A couple of retired interstate Labor premiers particularly like the place.

 

[Rowy]

"The labor Gvt has made some bad moves at the wrong time, NBN - 35 billion, schools 14billion I think they said, and so on. Pink batts, school halls, cash for clunkers."
Clunkers? I dont follow. NBN will pay for itself many times over. School halls were a stimulus measure (kept me directly employed and fuckloads of other people) as were the pink bats. The failure of the pink bats was lack of safety regulations and hasty implementation which was required at the time.

Tell the families of the dead people that hasty implementation was required at the time. Particularly when the PM himself was warned.

 

[philmud]

I have intimate knowledge of this matter. She never worked there so I accept your apology. The media did pursue the story and it came to adead end when they found out from sources other than Joe Richards that she had never worked there. Shoud maybe even edit or delete your post. I also know the restaurant owner. He has held functions for both parties. In fact I have personally seen a number of present and past Labor luminaries at the joint. A couple of retired interstate Labor premiers particularly like the place.

I didn't apologise actually, simply acknowledged that the source in question wasn't that reliable. I didn't realise you had such intimate knowledge of the matter - perhaps you ought to have gone on record, however, you'll need to forgive me for taking your claims with an enormous grain of salt until you do, or until you flesh out exactly how you know the menu wasn't distributed.

If you're buddies with Joe (who has been broadly reported as an LNP supporter/donor), please ask him how Mal Brough knew about the menu enough to apologise for it BEFORE Joe wrote him a letter to explain its existence?

Read this: http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/the-mal-brough-menugate-cover-up/

The cover-up is so, so obvious!

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Tell the families of the dead people that hasty implementation was required at the time. Particularly when the PM himself was warned.

You're right, they should have foreseen that dodgey operators (like the ones Stu mentioned) would be sending inexperienced people into roofs with no training.

 

[Rowy]

I didn't apologise actually, simply acknowledged that the source in question wasn't that reliable. I didn't realise you had such intimate knowledge of the matter - perhaps you ought to have gone on record, however, you'll need to forgive me for taking your claims with an enormous grain of salt until you do, or until you flesh out exactly how you know the menu wasn't distributed.
If you're buddies with Joe (who has been broadly reported as an LNP supporter/donor), please ask him how Mal Brough knew about the menu enough to apologise for it BEFORE Joe wrote him a letter to explain its existence?
Read this: http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/the-mal-brough-menugate-cover-up/
The cover-up is so, so obvious!

I have just gone on the record with telling you what I ave seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears directly. Not secondhand or by reading anything. Broadly reported means jack shit. People need to realise that away from the cameras most pollies get on very well with each other no matter what party they represent. I go on a fishing trip every year which would surprise you with the make up of the 'crew'. We have a great time and some very robust conversations. We are all eagerly awaiting the election results so we can finalise numbers. As for Joe I don't know who he votes for but I can assure you that he has many friends on both sides of politics. The whole menu thing was just an extension of the mysoginist crap. The hypocrisy was incredible considering the 'joke' about Peta Credlin, the selection for Batman etc.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Joe claimed he printed the menu as an in-house joke but it wasn't circulated - fair enough, I'm not calling him a liar. If what you're saying is that all the rest of it was a beat-up, well it probably was.

However to say that Mal knew nothing about is unlikely.

Rowy how does this sound as a likely run of events: it went around prior to the function or in an email for a laugh and someone has said "Joe mate very funny, be we can't have that on the menu, imagine the shitstorm!" and that was the end of it. Somebody else then found it lying around, posted the photo to stir things up.

Politics is fun.