Plastic Taste After Secondary Ferment

[stux]

When I used a 15 year old plastic fermenter... my beer smelt like tupperware

poor beer.

bye bye fermenter.

Now have a policy of only using fermenters less than 10 years old

 

[jakethedog]

Thanks to all those who have replied. I have never seen such an active forum with expert opinions and answers. I did use bleach in my secondary fermenter so maybe did not rinse it out well enough. I also used sodium met, but I have ever only used that and never had issues. I took dicko's advice and looked up howto brew site which makes me think of bleach. The bloke in my LHBS offered to taste the beer. (Lucky guy!)

 

[rich_lamb]

No worries Jake - we aim to please.

The jury's still out on bleach; many people suggest that in the correct concentrations it's a no-rinse sanitiser and works fine. Others (like me) won't touch the stuff because we have some experience which suggests it causes problems. As I said you can't really tell what concentration you're using because it breaks down pretty fast in the bottle.

Does sound a little sus that after suggesting all that it turns out you did use bleach huh? Another data point I guess - but it's not conclusive cos there's so many other variables!
(was talking to the guy from 5 star at the last conference about bleach, and he couldn't give a definitive answer but suggested it was risky in plastic)

At the end of the day, I have a policy: "if in doubt, leave it out". Doesn't seem to apply to my recipies though..

 

[Lecterfan]

Not that anyone's asking (but I've had a beer) I've used, and continue to use, bleach as a cleaner for 5 years. It must be rinsed well with HOT water. It is only a cleaner. And even then I only use it on glass and plastic FVs (rubber is sod percarbed). I then follow up with starsan as a no rinse sanitiser.

I am using the same 4 FVs that I've used for the last 5 years and in that time I've had 5 infected brews (that I've been aware of). The last were three in a row in Jan '10 that I am fairly sure was the yeast starter. The other two were gusher bugs that took 6-8 weeks in the bottle to expose themselves in 2008. I brew a minimum of twice a month (only been AG for 8 months) so the FVs have seen plenty of work.

Of course I've made my share of **** beer, but none of it has been due to the FVs or cleaning chemicals giving off flavours - laziness, poor hygeine, crap yeast handling, crap yeast, too much/too little oxygen, old kits etc etc.

I am not suggesting that it CAN'T happen, just saying that it hasn't happened to me, so unless I am statistical outlier (wouldn't be the first time) I wouldn't be too quick to blame bleach for the problem.

Alll I am saaaayiiiing...is give bleach a chaaaaance

 

[np1962]

Agree with Lecterfan, the use of bleach is not a problem.
The MISUSE of bleach IS a problem.
As with all chemicals we use for sanitising there is a correct amount that we should use. More is not better!
Did you know that if you use Iodophor or Starsan at too high a concentration then it requires rinsing? Defeats the purpose of using a no rinse sanitiser doesn't it?
Read the instructions, research your products and ALWAYS follow the correct procedures.

As far as a plastic/bandaid/phenolic flavour, sure it could be the over use of bleach but more likely an infection of some sort. I had two brews recently that had massive bandaid flavour. It wasn't until I get some comp feedback on another beer and then went through all my records that I realised I had a problem with one particular fermenter. That now is put aside to grow strawberry's next summer.
Good record keeping paid off.
I'll continue to use bleach as part of my regime along with vinyl hoses etc... Brewers can't keep blaming their equipment for what are usually process issues.
Cheers
Nige

 

[milob40]

hi jake, i have been having a similar problem.
i found the culprit to be the vinyl hose on my filter line it has been slowly degrading from sterilizing in sodium perc & starsan,
turns white if i left too long in solution and gets slightly sticky so i have not filtered this brew and things are tasting way better.
gotta get me some silicone hose, make sure your hose is food grade (buy from a hbs not bunnings)
and dont leave to soak too long. :icon_cheers:

 

[seemax]

Buy 1m of silicone hose , you can use it for everything and it never degrades ... no brewery can do without it !

 

[manticle]

To remove bleach residue either boiling water or sodium met can be used (or both).

Sodium met needs to be well rinsed as well.

Lecterfan - you say you use bleach to clean. Do you mean sodium hyporchlorite (chlorine bleach/pool chlorine/white king etc) or oxygen bleach (sodium percarbonate/napisan etc)?

 

[Lecterfan]

FVs and bottles (if needed) get soaked in a solution of Coles brand no scent generic "bleach" which is sodium Hypochlorite and Sodium Hydroxide according to the fine print.

I use sodium percarbonate on anything that the other will degrade (again, coles brand no scent napisan type stuff).

All get rinsed with hot/boiling water as I use them only as "cleaners" and only as necessary. Starsan does the rest.

Having been raised country I am a reasonably eco-friendly kind of fella and understand the importance of water conservation, but I do not skimp on my cleaning, which then makes sanitising easy breezey one two threesy.

Quite often, anything that has been soaked in the bleach solution overnight or longer will just get rinsed with BOILED/ing water and then I'll skip the starsan altogether.

No idea if this is all good, bad or indifferent, I was just offering another perspective to OP as I don't have issues that I or others have detected (except for brewers error - which is frequent enough not toneed the headache of anything else haha).

 

[going down a hill]

Quite often, anything that has been soaked in the bleach solution overnight or longer will just get rinsed with BOILED/ing water and then I'll skip the starsan altogether.

That's the way I roll, when a fv has been finished with it gets the bleach and rinse, then once more before I use it again. No problems so far.

 

[jakethedog]

Well after the "plastic taste" problem I rinsed the fermenter with boiling water and rinsed again and again and left overnight with sodium met and then rinsed with boiling water again and then used sodium met again and rinsed and rinsed. Then I put my new batch of beer in (my first AG) and after 1 week of bottling I had a little taste. I don't know if it my imagination but I think I can taste a tiny tiny bit of the off taste. I will let them condition for another 3 weeks then see how they are. Is it possible that once the FV has an infection/bad batch you never get it good again?
Maybe I'll throw in a $12 coopers kit just to test if the off flavour is there before I put in another AG.

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

Well after the "plastic taste" problem I rinsed the fermenter with boiling water and rinsed again and again and left overnight with sodium met and then rinsed with boiling water again and then used sodium met again and rinsed and rinsed. Then I put my new batch of beer in (my first AG) and after 1 week of bottling I had a little taste. I don't know if it my imagination but I think I can taste a tiny tiny bit of the off taste. I will let them condition for another 3 weeks then see how they are. Is it possible that once the FV has an infection/bad batch you never get it good again?
Maybe I'll throw in a $12 coopers kit just to test if the off flavour is there before I put in another AG.

Mate is it honestly worth mucking around with? If it was me i'd drop it from a great height and burn it. then go down to bunnings and buy myself a new fermenter and be done with it.

 

[kario]

Well after the "plastic taste" problem I rinsed the fermenter with boiling water and rinsed again and again and left overnight with sodium met and then rinsed with boiling water again and then used sodium met again and rinsed and rinsed. Then I put my new batch of beer in (my first AG) and after 1 week of bottling I had a little taste. I don't know if it my imagination but I think I can taste a tiny tiny bit of the off taste. I will let them condition for another 3 weeks then see how they are. Is it possible that once the FV has an infection/bad batch you never get it good again?
Maybe I'll throw in a $12 coopers kit just to test if the off flavour is there before I put in another AG.

Hey Jake, what ended up happening with this batch? Was it ok? Did you encounter this taste again? Did you end up tossing the fermenter?

I tried a bottle from a Coopers Draught kit last night that I bottled at the beginning of the month and it had a strong plastic-ie pvc taste......(dunno what bandaids taste like....that's what i keep hearing...I'm gonna suck on one tonight to find out :blink: )