Pilsner: Joe White vs BestMalz/Weyermann

[Codehopper]

Recently I had a misfortune of scorched beer (https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/recovering-after-scorching.97341/), and while I was polishing the heating element with soda bicarb tonight, I thought of something else.

For two years on that system I didn't have a single scorched beer. The last three batches were: 1. Burnt to death, 2. Burn marks on the heating element, but no smell/taste, 3. No scorching, but hell of a lot of proteins on hot and cold break, and very "fuzzy" heating element in the kettle.

What I did differently in #2 was protein rest and using a regulator to limit the output power to 1800w (the full power was 2400w). What was different in #3 was regulator and total absence of wheat or anything unmalted. That gave me an idea.

For 2 years before I always used weyermann or best malz pilsners. In December I bought a half sack of Joe White's, because LHBS was out of any others. All three last beers were brewed with JW, but batch #3 had approx 50/50 mix of JW and BMalz pilsners.

So here's the question: did anyone have a similar problem with Joe White pilsner malt having too much proteins?

 

[Brewnicorn]

This exact issue not quite. I had issues with JW Ale malt- it was breaking down during the boil and giving me the most amount of trub I’ve had in brews. Certainly plenty trying it’s *** off to stick to the boil pot - I couldn’t leave it unattended.

 

[Codehopper]

I had issues with JW Ale malt- it was breaking down during the boil and giving me the most amount of trub I’ve had in brews.

Thanks for your input!

Btw anyone experienced the same with Gladfield pilsner malt or ale malt for that matter? I'm keen to support at least "local region's" business, if "local country's" is not up to scratch.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Gladfields is excellently malted. I have used their wheat, Munich I and pils malts only, but no issues. Infact, the wort from mashtun is as clear or clearer than weyermann.
Pic of kettle receiving first runnings from Mash tun (after a good vorlauf) of 93% gladfields pils


Post boil of same wort (I used a hop spider on this one) showing trub cone. There was maybe another 150gm trub in my pre-fermentor filter.


Edit - no protein rest either. Just 63C/72C with decoction to get there.

 

[TheWiggman]

I think the problem with scorching on the element is more likely related to solids making their way from the mash through to the boil. You're doing BIAB from what I can gather, what sort method do you use to contain the grains? If you're getting too much particulate matter through to the boiler it's possibly related to too fine a grind (going from one malt to another will change the grind requirements, system depending) and flour not being effectively filtered. So it's not so much a JW vs. Weyermann battle, but rather a matter of different malts requiring different methods. Or alternatively a system issue which needs to be addressed.
For what it's worth I've used both and use a lot more Aussie malts that imports. I wouldn't use BB again for a patersbier, nor would I use Weyermann for an Aussie lager.

 

[Codehopper]

I think the problem with scorching on the element is more likely related to solids making their way from the mash through to the boil. You're doing BIAB from what I can gather, what sort method do you use to contain the grains?

Thanks for your input! I contemplated the grain crush size, and in fact I changed it from 0.025 on my mill (whatever are those units) to 0.04 between #1 and #2, just forgot to mention it, and it didn't have much impact on preventing burn. Worth mentioning that I used the finer crush, as I said, for 2 yrs without issues.

Same applies to wort clarity and particles. I brew in a basket, and admittedly the #1 was on a newer basket, that perhaps leaked more particles than the old one through sides. But the #2 was mashed with a nylon bag inside the basket, which prevented any side-leak, and no much impact on the burn.

My plan for now is to try pure Gladfield pilsner bill, and if it turns out without protein gunk I'll try the following batch with mix of GF and JW, same everything else, grain-wise. If gunk appears again, that will have to mean that my system is not JW-compatible

 

[goatchop41]

I'll personally never use JW malts again - using them gave me the cloudiest wort I've ever had (over the 6 brews that I used them for), and scorched on to my exposed element twice (doing BIAB).
Gladfields has been the complete opposite experience (both with BIAB and now on my Guten) - fantastically clear wort like JackOfAllBiers', and even an increase in efficiency by about 3-4%.

JW just isn't worth the cheaper price. I'll gladly pay more for the Gladfields.

 

[Yuz]

I'll personally never use JW malts again - using them gave me the cloudiest wort I've ever had (over the 6 brews that I used them for), and scorched on to my exposed element twice (doing BIAB).
Gladfields has been the complete opposite experience (both with BIAB and now on my Guten) - fantastically clear wort like JackOfAllBiers', and even an increase in efficiency by about 3-4%.

JW just isn't worth the cheaper price. I'll gladly pay more for the Gladfields.

hmm I'm about to order some JW Munich as base for my first BIAB attempt... Should I look at other options?

 

[wereprawn]

I've found the opposite. JW and BB always produce clear worts with much less trub for me. Every beer I've made with the current sack of GF American Ale has a shitload of trub and the final product has been cloudy. I BIAB.

Edit - I get a more floury crush with BB and JW but less trub which is odd.

 

[goatchop41]

hmm I'm about to order some JW Munich as base for my first BIAB attempt... Should I look at other options?

@Yuz Personally, I wouldn't. But as @wereprawn has made clear, other people's experiences may vary. I guess it depends on how much you were going to order.
To be honest though, I think that the bigger problem that you have is ordering munich as your main base malt...doesn't give you many options for beers that you can make! You're much better off getting an ale or pilsner malt as your main base malt, then bringing in things like munich/vienna/etc. after that.

Back on topic, I just had little success with JW and didn't want to waste my money further, so wouldn't recommend it

 

[wereprawn]

Totally agree with @goatchop41 with the Munich. A kg or two, with other lighter base malts in the mash is good..... all Munich can be a bit much.

 

[Jack of all biers]

I'm keen to support at least "local region's" business, if "local country's" is not up to scratch.

Given your interest in supporting 'local country's' business have you checked out the newly released Coopers malts. Check the Coopers Malt thread out for options of where to get it.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Just for the talk on variation in grains the same grain can vary a lot from season to season variations.
First Weyermann I used I got incredibly clear pre boil wort. As clear as bright finished beer I was so impressed. Following purchases of the same pilsner malt was some of the cloudiest pre boil wort I've ever had. Same process. I also read other brewers similar experience. Big contrast I can only think its down to seasonal variations. Could have been worth taking notes of batch numbers in hindsight.

 

[manticle]

I prefer other malts over JW but excessive trub/cloudiness is not the reason.

They are a major commercial supplier, pretty sure they've got that **** sorted.

 

[Garfield]

I know a commercial brewer who has sworn off JW for several reasons but I have no personal experience to offer. I have had many good experiences with glad field but I may have just been lucky. 2c FWIW

 

[manticle]

Gladfield is superb