Pet Bottles, Environmental Disaster?

[marlow_coates]

There ar some valid points both ways here I reckon.

Firstly, homebrewers waste is minimal by comparison (to larger brewers). For example we use rainwater when chilling (if you can) and water the lawn with it. Also, many reuse bottles, and kegs, cutting waste there. Also the point about brewing and consuming in the one place cuts transport emmisions.

But if we use that analogy, then everything Australia produces (waste wise) is minimal in comparison to bigger nations such as china, america, etc... So as a nation should we do nothing? (I remember reading we make about 1% of global emmisions - not sure of accuracy here)

I am of the opinion that it will take a world effort to make a difference, but that effort is contributed to by the individual also.
I also agree that legislation is the best way to do it. By forcing energy companies to produce cleaner energy, forcing the individual to re-use items, or use less of them, and by educating the public on truely effective ways to cut down their own 'footprint'.

All this of course only really matters if you beleive in Global Warming (which I am still undecided on... h34r: )


Back to Brewerpetes OP about PET bottles, I reckon if you are reusing them, then you can use it as a salve on your conscience (spelling?) about pollution. Even if it takes 16L of water to make one bottle, then reusing it as many times as possible is at least making up for its production... surely. Then recycling when they finally need retiring (not sure how much goes back into reproduction and the energy costs of this).

But lets face it, if you buy any PET bottle (for beer or otherwise) it will eventually end up in landfill, and each purchase is giving the companies who make it more incentive to make more. This same concept can be applied to any product that isn't carbon neutral.

Alright, that is a bit of a dodgy sum up of my feelings this arvo, but I am sitting here writing an assessment peice procrastinating waiting for the wallabies to play, dreaming about the coldies I can drink during the game :icon_cheers:

Marlow

 

[bum]

Firstly, homebrewers waste is minimal by comparison (to larger brewers). For example we use rainwater when chilling (if you can) and water the lawn with it.

The majority of your post was reasonable stuff (even if there were bits I don't entirely agree with) but the above is somewhat nonsensical. Watering lawns is wastage, pure and simple.

Not wanting to take a stab, the majority of your post is good balanced stuff.

 

[tcraig20]

The majority of your post was reasonable stuff (even if there were bits I don't entirely agree with) but the above is somewhat nonsensical. Watering lawns is wastage, pure and simple.

Not wanting to take a stab, the majority of your post is good balanced stuff.

I suppose if you first assume that rainwater is 'saved' water that has little environmental impact, using it to chill then disposing of it however you please has little impact.

 

[altone]

I'm trying to increase my carbon footprint. h34r:

Don't people run their water from the chiller and cleaning over the lawn or garden to water it? I'd think that was environmentally friendly, needs watering anyway.

Edit: At least by reusing the bottles, the energy in not being used to make new ones all the time.

Gavo.

Yep, mine goes straight into the garden water tank - even use a solar powered pump to push it in there.
Only water I dump into the drain when brewing is that with cleaning/sanitising chemicals - relatively small amount.

I'm sure that done correctly, homebrew would have less environmental impact than buying the same amount of beer commercially.

Having said that, I'd be suprised if anyone here actually does it for that reason.

As for the PET bottles, as others have said, at least homebrewers reuse them unlike all those mineral water drinkers.

 

[bum]

I suppose if you first assume that rainwater is 'saved' water that has little environmental impact, using it to chill then disposing of it however you please has little impact.

I think, in very broad environmental terms, using water from a rain tank and a man-made reservoir would have the same impact?

Unless, tanking water greatly reduces the amount of water available to evaporation and causes greater damage than dams? Way over my head, though.

 

[pdilley]

Quick recap to the OP.

I saw the news report and thought about my cupboard full of PET brew bottles and got to thinking. I also have about 60+ glass bottles that are from the 80's and they need new caps made just like PETs would need new caps bought although you could probably get away reusing them a few times until they wear out its still a replaceable.

I no chill in cubes so I use zero water to chill my wort. But a recent poll at the club showed the majority of people use the copper coiled hose wort chiller which means you need to run run water, usually up to 10 times the volume of liquid you are trying to chill through the system to transfer off enough heat. While some of use recapture the water and put it to another use (my dream would be to dump it back into an underground rainwater capture tank and then recycle it another time for chilling purposes or watering the yard. But I know there are a lot of ?grumpy? or stuck in their way brewers who just as soon as tip it straight down the sink drain as they can't be bothered and no one is really watching them.

I just felt like I had a sobering moment after watching the report and pondering. I have no answers.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[sinkas]

The belgian stil wash and reuse 330ml stubbies, thats why sometimes you get a very old looking bottle in the Westmalle range, I got a ancient looking one a few months back,

 

[pdilley]

I think glass, reuse it until ancient looking.

Then melt it down into new glass.

Is better for environment from a nothing in the landfill perspective, compared to the amount of life you get out of PET.

Now how much energy is consumed in the process? The worst manufactured items for energy off the top of my head are Aluminium, and Concrete.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[bum]

I posted basic production stats on the first page. I see no reason why recycling wouldn't reflect something similar.

PET is just as recyclable as glass, innit?

 

[pdilley]

I think recycling of plastic would involve quite a bit more, especially on the chemistry side. You would have to convert it back down to sludgy oil. Then you'd have to chemically separate the constituent parts.

Then there is the fact that to be "FOOD GRADE" you can not recycle plastic back into the plastic you are using for anything to be used with food


Glass is clean, melt, blow it out again in the extruder machine, no?



Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[marksfish]

FLAME SUIT ON!

HAS ANYONE CONSIDED THE CO2 PRODUCED BY BREWING BEER? :icon_cheers:

 

[bum]

I think recycling of plastic would involve quite a bit more, especially on the chemistry side. You would have to convert it back down to sludgy oil. Then you'd have to chemically separate the constituent parts.

Then there is the fact that to be "FOOD GRADE" you can not recycle plastic back into the plastic you are using for anything to be used with food

Did not know that. That'll shut me up.


Until...

Glass is clean, melt, blow it out again in the extruder machine, no?

Since this would be marginally more energy intensive than producing new glass (right?) it is worse than producing new plastic (when transport is factored in).

 

[Gavo]

Then there is the fact that to be "FOOD GRADE" you can not recycle plastic back into the plastic you are using for anything to be used with food

Most PET bottles, like Coke bottles, are laminated in three layers. They have recycled plastic on the middle layer and virgin plastic on the outer layers. Other than that, recycled plastic goes into items that are not food containers, for example, wheelie bins are made from recycled milk bottles.

Now don't get me started with the revenue making machine cloaked with terms like "green" and "carbon neutral." h34r:

Gavo.

 

[manticle]

FLAME SUIT ON!

HAS ANYONE CONSIDED THE CO2 PRODUCED BY BREWING BEER? :icon_cheers:

By brewing or homebrewing? I'd suggest co2 emissions would be minimal and possibly even good for the surrounding trees.

Why are we having this discussion again? Whatever you do in life, regardless of whether you believe in global warming or want to be a hippy or care about your neighbour's children's children, it makes sense to use less and to re-use what you can. Minimise waste, recycle and reuse - whether it's the same lot of water for two or three different things (and I'm not talking about watering grass), re-using a plastic bag or plastic/glass bottle as many times as conceivable, or throwing vege scraps into a compost area.

People used to do this stuff by default because they had to (and many still do). Make the most from what you have. Other people's guilt and media campaigns are irrelevant - you don't need to waste things, there are immediate benefits to re-using and recycling so why not just do it? China may fart per capita 100 x more than I do, Lion Nathan may have a grey water tank out the back and Old Jimmy Codger at no. 62 still waters his driveway. None of that makes one iota of difference to the fact that I don't need to spray one bottle with a high pressure hose for an hour because I can't be bothered finding my sponge. My water bill is less than this time last year because I double and triple what I use it for when I possible. I'm not going to save the world but I don't need to. I also don't need to waste money, water or time debating whether making something yourself or becoming another consumer is a better way to be.

 

[bum]

Whatever you do in life, regardless of whether you believe in global warming or want to be a hippy or care about your neighbour's children's children, it makes sense to use less and to re-use what you can.

Why should I be a pawn to the GLOBAL ZIONIST CONSPIRACY?!

 

[Hop Me]

Serious? You need a better chilling technique

We as brewers make up a tiny proportion of PET bottle usage, and us brewers reuse the bottles, as opposed to soft drink consumers that chuck them out, either in the recycling or just in the bin.

Right there with you. An besides, there is nothing more recyclable that water. What we use here will end up in a cloud above some far away land some day and eventually make it's way back to us in one form or another. I think the Gov like to hype the water thing in order to further regulate and tax us. "Here's an idea: Lets scare the crap out of the consumer and tell them we're running out of water and they will have to use less.. Crap! They're using less and we're not making as much money to waste on retarded political waste! We'll have to up the rates again....." I need a beer. Dave

 

[Hop Me]

Why should I be a pawn to the GLOBAL ZIONIST CONSPIRACY?!

Zionist! How the hell did you pull that one out of it. Obama/Gore/Rudd are Zionists? Are you serious?

 

[manticle]

Bum was taking the piss, I'm fairly certain.

For 'fairly' read 'absolutely'.

 

[Hop Me]

Bum was taking the piss, I'm fairly certain.

For 'fairly' read 'absolutely'.

Yeah, figured. Friggin GW crap gets my hackles up. Government pisses me off. Seems like they have nothing better to do but plan more ways to make our lives LESS fun, and MORE expensive. Ok, I'm done with my Poli-Rant for the night, back to brewing

 

[jimi]

Anyone worried about PET bottles should start with boycotting bottled water. It's a amazing testament to the power of advertising that people will pay about 2000% more for a product thats virtually identical to what they have readily supplied at home.