perspective

[shaunous]

Was true for me, I learnt more out on my own in my 4th year to 3yrs after that, working on machinery getting looked down on and abused by customers makes you learn quick

 

[manticle]

It's the same with any job whether uni or tafe based training.

A doctor or dentist will probably learn as much in six months on the job as they did their entire 6 (?) years of med school and only become competent after another 6+ in the field. Same with chef, carpenter, archivist, conservator, plumber, bricklayer, you name it.

The training is a fundamental if done properly but you need to build on that and that only happens with experience.
Still, there are loads of practitioners of all types who've been 'doing it this way for thirty years mate' who have been doing it badly for thirty years and wilfully remain ignorant, just as there are knowitalls with a degree or diploma who've never touched or seen the thing they are an alleged expert about.

 

[shaunous]

just as there are knowitalls with a degree or diploma who've never touched or seen the thing they are an alleged expert about.

Relating to 99% of every Australian trainer Engineer.

 

[browndog]

I know a lot of crap tradies that became instructors.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Sad....but true....promoted to their level of incompetence.

 

[of mice and gods]

I had a new one today.

Apart from having 50 pages of site rules to gain access to a small site and on top of the generic company and site specific inductions they are now saying that they 'may require a $1000 deposit before commencing work (to be refunded upon completion and final inspection of the work)'.. and here was me thinking that they would pay us for the work we are doing for them.

The boss man said it best when he said they can get fucked.

Al

 

[pk.sax]

I believe he was intending to **** you all, pref one by one for the money.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Thats bullshit. He could hold that money and use a variety of reasons to try and keep it. The only time I have ever heard something like that is paying for Tender documents, which is normally refunded if unsuccesfull.

 

[shaunous]

I know a lot of crap tradies that became instructors.

And most of them are ex army tradies, in my experience.

 

[manticle]

Dubious about the legality of the above mentioned deposit. What was the reason given?

 

[real_beer]

Dubious about the legality of the above mentioned deposit. What was the reason given?

It's probably a 'Tradesman's Accountability Bond' that he uses for gullible morons to finance his 'Totalisator Agency Board' account with. But it's more likely he's a former Greek business official now plying his trade in Australia to escape the heat over there. :lol:

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its pretty sneaky...he puts the "bond" money in the bank and earns interest

 

[shaunous]

Probably a bond to go towards the amount of gear construction tradies steal from job sites

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Should be a bond for the amount of tools stolen from tradies.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

It's the same with any job whether uni or tafe based training.

A doctor or dentist will probably learn as much in six months on the job as they did their entire 6 (?) years of med school and only become competent after another 6+ in the field. Same with chef, carpenter, archivist, conservator, plumber, bricklayer, you name it.

The training is a fundamental if done properly but you need to build on that and that only happens with experience.
Still, there are loads of practitioners of all types who've been 'doing it this way for thirty years mate' who have been doing it badly for thirty years and wilfully remain ignorant, just as there are knowitalls with a degree or diploma who've never touched or seen the thing they are an alleged expert about.

3 years of uni accounting degree, and by the time I got to my first day on the job (though having done bookkeeping as a part time job and understanding the basics very well) I realised that I knew nothing from the degree. Ironically, the part time job taught me more.

I have kids who work under me who are better educated (CPA/CA, which I didn't ever bother to do), and useless, unimaginative nuffies. It's all well and good knowing stuff but application, especially in my field is everything. I'd rather research, then think through possibilities and scenarios and get a good result for all. Never had much of an issue getting a job, because an employer can see someone with a brain and experience means more than education, despite what the job ads say.

When I was at uni, we had the mature age students. My goodness they worked hard, and I respected them deeply for it. I was a smart kid to whom it came easy and they were of average academic intelligence, but great work ethic. But the problem is, if you don't think, rather than regurgitate - sure, you'll get through a degree - but you'll never be good on job. This applies whether it's a trade or a profession (I grew up gyprocking houses at age 10-15, and I had a 3rd year apprentice who was a mate of my younger brother still ask me questions on "how is this done?").

The ability to look at things from different perspectives and apply theory and common sense to application is a universally regarded skill, regardless of occupation.

 

[of mice and gods]

To clarify, it wasn't my boss who wanted the deposit from us, it was the owner/developer (a very large well known company I wish not to name in order to cover my ass) who was asking our business to supply them with a deposit. I can only assume it's for potential damages, but then isn't that why we also have to supply current insurance documents? I don't think it's right.

My boss is a pretty old bloke and I've had a hard time explaining to him that we have to jump through these hoops or we wont make any money. But some of the things make me even second guess what the **** is going on.

Anyone want to start a OHS/SWMS/Induction company with me? We could make a fuckin killing and then spend more time brewing Although from my studies in that area is it mind-numbingly boring. Maybe we could take a leaf from a major retailer who wants to charge contractors $200+ (each person on site) to complete online inductions through a third party.

 

[of mice and gods]

manticle, no reason given in the paperwork apart from that it (not exact quote) "may be required, and if so would be required in full before commencement of work and would be refunded on successful completion of the job, final inspection and handover".

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Got to love the okd builders etc.

Reminded me last year working on a site where they are building 3 commercial units for BCF/autobarn etc. The builder is well into his 60's and quetly spoken ( looks a bit like Gollam....), been building for an eternity. Anyway, one of the building inspectors, a chick fresh from uni walkied on site to inspect a slab that had been poured over a 300mm storm water drain. She walked up to him and said " Your going to have to pull the slab up, I havent inspected the storm water pipe yet" to which he replied" Lady, that slab is not coming up, we flushed out the drain and its perfect. I suggest you go back to the office, have a cup of tea and explain to your boss why you didnt come earlier to inspect it."

She was speachless, we could hardly contain ourselves. Needless to say she never went back to that site. Was absolute gold.

 

[Fat Bastard]

I had a new one today.

Apart from having 50 pages of site rules to gain access to a small site and on top of the generic company and site specific inductions they are now saying that they 'may require a $1000 deposit before commencing work (to be refunded upon completion and final inspection of the work)'.. and here was me thinking that they would pay us for the work we are doing for them.

The boss man said it best when he said they can get fucked.

Al

I really like this idea.
Every Christmas, we have a shutdown. Every christmas the facilities manager gets a bunch of contractors in to do the building maintenance work and move walls around etc.
Every year my guys tools go missing, our stock of screws, nuts and bolts gets depleted and the machine & fabrication shop is left in a mess and/or has some equipment damaged.This year we locked up the machine shop and fitted locking isolators to the machinery and they just broke the door down and jemmied the locks on the machine tools with screwdrivers.

We must be the only place in the country a contractor can turn up with literally no tools or parts and still get paid for "completing" a job.

 

[pcmfisher]

In Holdens case the union actually went to management to offer a reduction in pay to try and keep jobs.

Not really a reduction. They just said we won't have any pay rises for the next 4 years, knowing full well they had taken things too far and the writing was on the wall.

Oh, that's right, the unions did save $200 000 by getting rid of tea and biscuits in the canteen. h34r: