Pasteurisation

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I think this thread got a bit serious, a bit too quick. I dont think anyone here meant to offend anyone.

MHB does know a heck of a lot about brewing. Listen to what he says.

My take on pasturisation is that the big brewers do it because they need a consistent, safe product. It zaps the flavour out of hops etc, thats why smaller craft breweries don't do and and advertise as such.
 
Morning folks, bit windy up our way last night - hope everyone is safe and sound.

As i said earlier, right or wrong doesn't give people the excuse to be condescending... But some people are just born nasty.
 
Some craft brewers do pasturise, case in point white rabbit dark ale, though it is then inoculated with a different strain for carbing.
 
Ah good to know. I am currently investigating some contract brewing and it was the intent of original post to learn more about it.
 
Even on a commercial scale pasteurisation is a pain in the ***.
It all works well until the packing machine stops and bottles back up in the hot zone and before you know it. Popcorn.
Most beers get around 20pu. Some less some more. Ciders run around 105 pu. But in time multiples of 62.5c.
 
You have to look at co2 levels, there's a trade off between carbonation and pasteurisation, if you want over 6.2gl of co2 and 40pu it won't happen, all the lids will pop off.
For cans you can get 100 pu but only at 5.3gl.
 
Too much heat forcing the CO2 out of solution? ..
Anyway i think i have my answer, the real big guys (excepting coopers) do it and some of the craft guys too. Mainly to gain batch (and flavour consistency) - but if shelf life is assisted that's fine too.
The smaller guys don't worry about it (or don't want to do it) because they like to bottle condition and they think that killing the bad microbes, sacrifices the good flavour profile. As such they have confidence that their sanitation is up to scratch to fend off the nasties. It's not legislated so why waste time and cost (and possible offence to the hipster clientele).
 
good4whatAlesU said:
Too much heat forcing the CO2 out of solution? ..
Anyway i think i have my answer, the real big guys (excepting coopers) do it and some of the craft guys too. Mainly to gain batch (and flavour consistency) - but if shelf life is assisted that's fine too.
The smaller guys don't worry about it (or don't want to do it) because they like to bottle condition and they think that killing the bad microbes, sacrifices the good flavour profile. As such they have confidence that their sanitation is up to scratch to fend off the nasties. It's not legislated so why waste time and cost (and possible offence to the hipster clientele).
Really? Shelf life is reduced, CONSISTANT flavour profile enjanced.(that in no way means better flavour) Guess you've not had an aged beer. There are many ways to skin said cat, the more processes involed the more adjustments required to attain desired result.
 
To be a little more specific but generalised big beers; imperial stouts, belgians will continue to improve with age much like a good red wine. Those depths of flavour cant be achieved any other way.
 
If you are serious about a contract filling job I can point you in the right direction as far as what to look out for, what to test for and so on.
I can also do the job you are looking for.
If you are interested send me a pm, I don't want to infringe on any forum rules by talking about it in this thread.
 
I made a 5 litre batch of mead and bottled it in 330 ml stubbies. As an experiment I pasteurised half of it. Could not detect any difference in taste. Will never do it again, as it is totally unnecessary for a homebrewer of beer. Mind you I think the pasteurised mead made me much smarter after a few stubbies.
 
tugger said:
If you are serious about a contract filling job I can point you in the right direction as far as what to look out for, what to test for and so on.
I can also do the job you are looking for.
If you are interested send me a pm, I don't want to infringe on any forum rules by talking about it in this thread.
Thanks tugger maybe down the track. I'm not looking at the Australian market place.
 
MastersBrewery said:
To be a little more specific but generalised big beers; imperial stouts, belgians will continue to improve with age much like a good red wine. Those depths of flavour cant be achieved any other way.
It is not possible to age e.g. in kegs or barrels THEN pasteurise upon bottling and selling to the market?

Not that i really want or need to pasteurise i just wanted to learn what is out there / how it's regulated and this discussion has been very helpful.
 
The answer is yes you could but that would then halt the aging proçess and the paturised beer would have a on going life span of between 3-6 months. Un pasturised it could continue to age. A $3000 bottle of Grange hermatige is not pasturised if it were it'd be a $30 bottle of wine forever. Continue to age that $3000 bottle and in 10 years it'll be a $10000 bottle of wine.
 
Beer is not wine (nor whisky). Lower alcohol etc. would mean less long term preservation expectancy etc?

Yes typo "is it not?" rather than"it is not"..
 
Ducatiboy stu said:
Lol see the little squiggly line at the end of my sentence which you edited out in your quote? .. That's called a "question mark" it looks like this. ? . Here it is again: ?
When you see that thing, it means someone is asking a question rather than making a statement.
 
OK.

I work in industrial brewing packaging.

Two types of pasteurisation: flash past and tunnel past.

Flash pasteurisation is where it's heated rapidly to about 70-80 degrees and kept there for a few seconds, and then cooled. This all happens in a large heat exchanger that's sort of the opposite of a wort cooler. Flash pasts typically are placed on kegging lines, but are also common on European bottling lines. It has the advantage of not losing as much aroma as tunnel pasteurisation. Problem is, since you're pasting before filling, you need an expensive sterile filler.

Tunnel pasteurisation occurs after the bottles/cans are filled (does not happen on kegs for obvious reasons). They all enter a large tunnel where water of varying temperatures (depending on the position) is sprayed onto them. They endure a lower but longer pasteurisation which tends to affect aroma etc more. The advantage is that you don't need a controlled environment filler, as any bugs picked up along the filling process are killed.

Since pasteursation occurs at the packaging stage, it of course occurs after any conditioning/lagering/aging processes.

The only reason pasteurisation is used is to lower the overall cost. It's not strictly necessary to do, however, means you can save money by not needing to control sterility as much. If you think controlling infections in home brew is difficult, think about how hard it is in large, complex pipelines, valve matrices and packaging machinery.

Typically, craft brewers don't pasteurise. It's not a requirement, but it does make sense economically for large brewers.
 
Perhaps a little off topic but I was listening to an episode of the Sour Hour on my way to work this morning. There is an interesting discussion about pasteurisation and sour beer about 12 to 15 mins before the end.

Here is the link for anyone interested: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/3949-2/
 

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