Omg

[sm0902]

Hi All,

I've just tasted my worst AG brew ... and that's after 150 or so of them. Sure, I've had brews I'm not fond of - but that's not due to bad flavour, just not suitable.

I'm not sure how to explain the flavour - perhaps marzipan. It doesn't come across as being an infection ... but I haven't had one, so not sure exactly what to expect there.

The brew was:

2300 Weyerman Pilsner
1000 Wheat
500 Vienna
200 Caramunich
100 Flaked Barley

15g Magnum @ 60 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 30 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 15 minutes
15g Amarillo @ flame out

Wyeast 1272 from previous brew

The major difference here to previous brews is the Amarillo. First time I've used Amarillo since early last year.

Bought only recently and it's an 09 batch.

Any thoughts?

Not sure I'm convinced it can be the hops ...

Anyone had Marzipan flavour before??

Thanks ...

 

[Rotgut]

How consistent were your temps - mash & ferment? Could that cause your grief?

 

[manticle]

Not sure about marzipan but have had some unpleasant flavours from amarillo before. It's a hop I really like but caution needs to be exercised in the flavour additions.

Some people flat out hate it.

I've found combined with other hop flavours it is great so maybe try dry hopping with some cascade or centennial or chinook (if you are kegging and can do so). Otherwise let it age and some of the stone fruit might come out.

 

[slacka]

Google says that nutty flavours are "a product of oxidization or prolonged overheating during aging or after bottling."
My money, however, is on the yeast.
It sounds like you may have successfully propagated the "hints of nut" from the 1272.

 

[Gulpa]

I always get marzipan from the Wey Bo Pils. I think this is your culprit. I like it.

cheers
Andrew.

 

[eamonnfoley]

fair bit of caramunich in there. Can give an unusual flavour - especially if you havent used it much?

 

[sm0902]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to summarise a response.

- Fermentation temps, etc are always stable - only ever vary a degree or two
- Normal boil
- Always use 1272 ... never produced this flavour. Another beer made at the same time is perfectly okay. Same 1272 re-used.
- Caramunich?
- Weyerman Pilsner ... I've used it before without any issues
- I keg and have tried dry hopping before without success ... but good idea Manticle ... I will try that (somehow)

 

[dent]

Some infections from lacto ( grain dust ) can be subtle enough to not scream 'infected!' but still put a strange aroma/flavour on the beer. Maybe take a sample of this beer and keep it warm in a santised jar for a while to test stability, see if gets worse over a week or two.

 

[MHB]

I got a vague memory of this, the answer turned out to be an anaerobic bacterium that produces benzaldehyde. One of the common descriptors is an Almond like aroma.

I'd be very tempted to run a bit of your yeast slurry in a high temperature starter (say 30^oC), keep it simple just a bit of Dex and DME, have a good sniff just to rule in or out the obvious. Let's face it under home conditions if you keep recycling yeast you're going to get a mutation or infection, it's just a question of when not if.

MHB

Sorry dent, I typed this a while ago then got caught up on a phone call, pretty much what I was thinking.

M

 

[prongs_386]

Could there be some diacetyl? Yeast could have stopped a bit early or maybe the wort wasn't aerated?

 

[sm0902]

The wort was aerated per normal and the yeast behaved like normal through fermentation.

Following MHB's post, I googled Benzaldehyde and 'tried' to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzaldehyde

I had used Bi-carb Soda to clean my Urn - the only thing I could find to remove the beer stain. I've done it now on a couple of occasions and wonder whether this time I didn't do a proper rinse? (Sodium Carbonate and Bicarbonate are mentioned in the article)

I'm very thorough with cleaning and rinsing ... but maybe this time I missed out.

It is pretty much undrinkable. I guess 1 sh!t beer out of 150+ isn't bad.

I added some dry hops last night and will try it again tonight.

 

[sm0902]

Bit of an update on this one. I dry hopped with Simcoe and Magnum and they appear to be starting to dominate the flavour. (Thanks Manticle - very good idea).

To add to my confusion on this problem ... I have two other brews which have just finished primary fermentation. Both used the same yeast from a previous brew (not the sh!t one) and one of them seems to have a slight amount of the same off-flavour. I think I will dry hop this one in Secondary ... just to hide any off-flavours.

Both of these brews fermented side-by-side at the same temperature. Nothing different in aeration, pitching temp, etc, etc.

The brew which seems to have a small amount of this off-flavour, does not have the same Grain or Hops as my first sh!t brew.

The one similarity is it was brewed after cleaning my Urn with Bi-Carb Soda .. same as the other bad brew.

I'm not convinced this is the issue - but you never know.

Not sure I will use Bi-carb Soda to clean my Urn again!

 

[sm0902]

Bit of an update:

11 days in the keg ... and tried it for the first time in a few days, and it's starting to taste like it should. The harsh bitterness and overall sh!t flavour is subsiding and I'm actually getting malt and hop flavour.

Good thing I didn't throw it out.

But strange as to exactly what caused this. First time I've experienced it over 150+ brews!