No Chill Whirpool

[beerbog]

Hi all,

Today I did my first no chill BIAB into a cube. ( Done a few chilled BIAB's )

The problem I had was waiting for the wort to settle down after the boil before I could whirlpool. It was at least an hour before all the convection currents stopped, then another 30 mins for the whirlpool. I am worried I may have left it too long to get it into the cube. My boil was fairly vigorous using a 4 ring burner.

Thanks. :beerbang:

 

[Phoney]

Cube will more than likely be fine so long as the temp was >80C but your flavour and aroma additions are now all bitter additions.

What was your recipe?

 

[Acasta]

Hi all,

Today I did my first no chill BIAB into a cube. ( Done a few chilled BIAB's )

The problem I had was waiting for the wort to settle down after the boil before I could whirlpool. It was at least an hour before all the convection currents stopped, then another 30 mins for the whirlpool. I am worried I may have left it too long to get it into the cube. My boil was fairly vigorous using a 4 ring burner.

Thanks. :beerbang:

The point of no chill, is so that you don't have to worry about the time taken to chill. It may be a little bit more bitter as the kettle retains more heat. However, i wouldn't worry. If its too bitter, adjust your hop scheduled for next time.

 

[NickB]

I might be doing it 'wrong', but I always just whirlpool vigorously as soon as I turn the gas off, and let settle for 15 or 20 mins. Get a nice cone in the centre of the pot, and very little hot break into the cube.

Cheers

 

[TidalPete]

It was at least an hour before all the convection currents stopped,

Only no-chilled the once (with success) but TTBOMK you need to drain to the cube with all despatch & worry about the gunk later?
BribieG's knowledge would be invaluable to you here but unfortunately he's moved on to greener pastures.
Perhaps others can confirm or deny my contribution to this thread?

TP

 

[NickB]

Pete, I believe it's still good practice to whirlpool and keep as much of the hot break out of the cube as you can. Cold break will settle out in the cube, but I tip it all in anyway...

 

[TidalPete]

Pete, I believe it's still good practice to whirlpool and keep as much of the hot break out of the cube as you can. Cold break will settle out in the cube, but I tip it all in anyway...

Ah! Thank you Nick I stand corrected. :beer:

TP

 

[beerbog]

Cube will more than likely be fine so long as the temp was >80C but your flavour and aroma additions are now all bitter additions.

What was your recipe?

Don't know about > 80 deg, the recipe was Dr Smurto's Golden Ale. The 60 min hop was put in at 40m ins and the 20 min just after flame out to adjust for the bitterness.

The temp is the thing that worries me, what is the lowest it can go to still pasteurise? :beerbang:

 

[Phoney]

80. Hence my post!

If your cube was sanitized it *should* be ok........ touching wood...... with a rabbits paw in your front pocket.... et al. Nah, when you throw it into your fermenter if it smells OK & tastes nice & sweet, it'll be fine. (just very bitter)

BribieG's knowledge would be invaluable to you here but unfortunately he's moved on to greener pastures.

Has he? Since when? What pasture could possibly be greener than AHB?

 

[beerbog]

80. Hence my post!

If your cube was sanitized it *should* be ok........ touching wood...... with a rabbits paw in your front pocket.... et al. Nah, when you throw it into your fermenter if it smells OK & tastes nice & sweet, it'll be fine. (just very bitter)




Has he? Since when? What pasture could possibly be greener than AHB?

The cube was hit with Starsan before seeing any liquid. :beerbang:

 

[TidalPete]

What pasture could possibly be greener than AHB?

Too some brewers it's not quite the forum it used to be. h34r:

TP

 

[Phoney]

Too some brewers it's not quite the forum it used to be. h34r:

TP

Yeah I agree it aint the place it was when I joined 2 years ago, but there's still an enormous wealth of information here that cant really be found anywhere else....

(that is unless BribieG, Chappo, Butters and other MIA's have gone and started their own secret forum)

 

[felten]

that's sad, he is a wealth of information, and not just on brewing

 

[Cocko]

that's sad, he is a wealth of information, and not just on brewing

But he is old! h34r:








**** me.....

 

[under]

Cube will more than likely be fine so long as the temp was >80C but your flavour and aroma additions are now all bitter additions.

What was your recipe?

I dont get this. I really think this is a myth. Ive done 30+ no chills and I have not changed any hopping schedules and they have all been fine.

 

[Cocko]

I dont get this. I really think this is a myth. Ive done 30+ no chills and I have not changed any hopping schedules and they have all been fine.

A quoted post from Thirsty Boy about 'how long do hops keep bittering:

The rate of isomerization drops off very quickly lower than 100.. but continues down to about 75 before it becomes basically insignificant. You have to remember though, that you have a long time at those sub boiling but still high temperatures. So what you miss out on in rate of change, you make up for in time for change to happen.

I have done a few experiments on this, both sensory and measuring IBUs in the lab; and my results suggest that adding Pellet hops loose into a cube (racked after whirlpool approx 90-95C) gives you a bitter quotient equivalent to adding the same amount of hops at 20-25 minutes from the end of the boil. Put em in a hop bag or tea ball, use flower hops or both... its going to be less, maybe significantly less. If you use a lot of IBUs worth of cube hops.. I suspect the utilization will also drop off. I have and know that others have tried; an all cube hop beer - calculated at 25mins equivalent... and the beer was under bitter. So if you were going to try that (it gives amazing flavour and aroma...) I would be thinking more along the lines of equal to 15mins in the boil.

I add pretty much any hop that isn't a straight bittering addition into the cube - this cuts the amount of bittering hop I need to use and gives really fantastic hop flavour plus a deep (although not intense) kettle hop aroma. IMO, you don't get the more volatile/resinous/perfumey aromas that you can get from a whirpool or hopback addition... the prolonged heat changes those compounds.

I don't think you can replicate kettle hopping with dry hopping - they are different. So when I want that hopback/whirlpool type aroma, I find that a hop tea, added at 2/3rds attenuation does the trick. I add the hops to a coffee plunger, give them 1 minute contact with 500ml of boiling water - plunge and tip the water into the fermenter - then I add another 500ml of boiling water and give them 3-5 mins contact, plunge and tip.

The reasons for this method are - To emulate a hopback via

Actual contact with hot liquid
But short contact followed very quickly by rapid cooling.

So the Terpene fractions of the hop oils have a chance to interact with the heat and oxidise a bit, but the hydrocarbons have minimal (but some) chance to volatilize.

I add at 2/3rds through fermentation so that neither contact with the yeast nor C02 stripping has too much of a chance to drive off the aroma I went to so much trouble to make... but so there is a little of both of those things during the last part of active fermentation... which tends to smooth out any harsh or grassy characteristics. You could add the tea at the very end of fermentation.. but I would go for a longer steep time on the hops to smooth it out a bit, this would mean more hops to get the same level of aroma compounds in the beer. Or just cold conditioning the beer for an extra week or two.

 

[manticle]

Ah! Thank you Nick I stand corrected. :beer:

TP

My experience of No chill (so not scientific but done a few without issue) involves letting the convection currents settle, then whirlpooling, then allowing to settle agian, then draining to cube

My unscientific take on this is that the wort will remain above pasteurisation temps during this time. Presuming I've been clean and sanitary with the hose and cube (and I am) and presuming I squeeze the air out properly (and I do) I should be no more risky that letting an open kettle chill over an hour with an immersion chiller.

 

[Goofinder]

I whirlpool as soon as I turn off the heat, let it sit for 10 minutes and drain into the cube. The wort is pretty much stationary by that point.

I do boil in an urn though and I reckon my boil is on the softer side of rolling.

 

[felten]

My brew stand consists of a 3 ring mounted on a steel frame which takes quite a while to cool down. I can see large wafts of break coming up from the trub cone while draining if I whirlpool too early, and since it doesn't matter if it sits in the pot for 40 mins instead of 10 mins, I'll let the convection slow down and then WP and rest. (that's when I remember a WP anyway)

 

[Josh]

I sit my kettle on a wet towel and whirlpool virtually as soon as I turn the kettle off. Then I let it sit for 5-20 minutes depending on how much clean up I have to do. Then rack to my cube.