No Chill Versus Chill?

[UsernameTaken]

It has recently been suggested to me that chilling my wort down to fermentation temp as quickly as possible after my late hop additions will make a significant difference to the freshness of my hop flavours with my hoppy beers.

Can anyone who has moved from no chill to chill confirm or deny this?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Stouter]

Uh oh, I feel a flood of emotionally passionate comments coming. Duck!

 

[UsernameTaken]

I guess I was looking for real world experiences and not blind defence or attack of any particular process?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[manticle]

Yes it will make a difference.

Whether the difference is worth the change in process or you can make up that difference in another way (eg. hot steep/argon method) will be up to you but there is no doubt that just side by side will differ markedly (in late/highly hopped beers, much less with earlier additions)

 

[UsernameTaken]

I guess I was hoping someone who had made the transition could give me some indication of how it affected the hop flavour?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I've done both but as for my hoppy beers I chill. For beers that have only bittering hops I will no chill because it doesn't make any difference. You'll get more IBU, bitterness out of cubed hops (or late addition hopped wort) because of the length of time it stays hot. Longer time above 80c longer Isomerisation. So in theory it is fair that if you want more flavour/aroma then chilled is better because it stops the isomerisation. In my preference anyway.
(gets ready to duck)
Cube Hoppers can weigh in here and give their preferred methods etc. h34r:

 

[fungrel]

I have gone the opposite direction, and find that the timing of sub-15min additions make a huge difference when you chill. It really does depend on what sort of flavour profile you prefer, as there are many ways to achieve what you want. You need to work out what sort of commercial beers you like to drink, research their hopping techniques, and work backwards. There are other ways to do it, but they all come back to what you prefer.
I moved to no chill to save water, knowing that lagers are what I want to brew (and save money on water bills in the process).

 

[jbaker9]

My latest pale ale is no chill without 5 min hops. At the suggestion of another user I boiled the 5 min addition in 2 L water and chilled in the sink... will know soon if it works

 

[RobB]

Can anyone who has moved from no chill to chill confirm or deny this?

I have moved from no-chill to chilling and yes, the same beer chilled will have more hop flavour than its no-chilled equivalent. However, there are ways around this, most notably with cube hopping.

You can get massive hop flavours from cube hopping. My experience with both techniques is that I achieved more hop flavour from cube hopping than I did with a post-boil steep followed by a rapid chill.

 

[UsernameTaken]

So just to confirm, by cube hopping you mean still whirlpool and stand for 30 mins and then transfer to cube with all 15min or later hops already in the cube?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[manticle]

I guess I was hoping someone who had made the transition could give me some indication of how it affected the hop flavour?

Cheers,
UNT

Yes I have done both. No chill will give more bitterness and les delicate hop flavour with late additions, not much difference with early additions.

The kinds of differences are well documented but only you can decide what works better for your purposes. Try it out and see.

 

[Bribie G]

Cube hopping is where you put the hops into the cube and drain the hot wort onto them. It's more or less the equivalent of whirlpool or "hop back" hopping.

Another method with aroma hops is to only do a bittering addition in the kettle, and as Manticle said, reserve a couple of litres to do the late additions in a separate pan, cool and add to FV with the bulk of the cubed wort.

With the vast majority of hops used in Australian home brews being pellets, cube hopping is easy. With flowers or plugs, the pan method is preferable, or even use a coffee plunger / press.

 

[UsernameTaken]

Ok, thank you all, great advice!

Doing it right now!!

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Way back when Brewers where burned at the stake for even suggesting no chill.....we gave it a go

And it took a while for us to work out why our beers just didnt taste the same

Eventually we worked out that no-chill added 10-15 mins to the hop schedule... IE a 0 min addition became a 10 min addition when it had cooled down

Oh how things have changed, and brewers are no longer burnt at the stake.... ( except if you question Star-San and other methods...man the Star-San fan boy's go nuts ....you will get botulism...etc...etc..)

Modern brewing software now has settings for no-chill....all because a bunch of us decided it could be done and worked out all the things that didnt make it work

Getting proper flame out aroma can be done with no-chill if you know how

NOTE:- I dont know of any brewer who has suffered the almost mandated botulism at the time....apparently no-chill was a sure fire death sentence

 

[UsernameTaken]

Great post Ducatiboy stu - Thank you for sharing your wisdom!

I ended up doing a 20 minute whirlpool and chucking all my hops into the cube this afternoon and I am cautiously optimistic...

Cheers,
UNT

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Cheers,
UNT

You really should think carefully before abbreviating your username.

 

[capsicum]

I've recently made the change to no chill after years of immersion chilling, mainly for the time management aspect (got a young baby etc).

Does no chill make a significant difference to hop profile? I'd say it definitely would if you kept your recipe the same - but that's not the way to do it! Presumably you'd be making the move to no chill for other reasons and adapt your hop schedule accordingly. Most software now can account for no chill, and using cube/dry hopping right can give all the flavour and aroma you need.

I only do first wort, cube and dry hopping and I'm completely satisfied. There is obviously some recipe adjustment involved and for me that involved a few brews getting a feel for it, but now I reckon my no chills are just as good as anything I made with an immersion chiller. Can't tell if they're exactly the same as before but eh, they taste great anyway!

Give it a go and see what you reckon.
:chug:

 

[Lionman]

As above, if you FWH, cube then dry hop you can get plenty of hoppyness come through.

There is no point doing late boil or flame out additions if no chilling.

If you want big hop profile, don't hold back on cube additions.

 

[UsernameTaken]

So how long would you whirlpool for in the kettle for when cube hopping?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Benn]

Once I've reached flame out I give the wort a minute or two to calm down then I get my spoon and begin to rouse a vigorous whirlpool over about 30 seconds or there abouts. I then put the lid on the kettle and don't touch it again until it's time to transfer to cube, usually about 20 minutes or when the wort has cooled to around 80 degrees.
I always get a large mound of hop & break material in the centre of the kettle with clear wort around the outside to draw from.
I'd be interested in other no chillers thoughts/ methods as I just jumped in without a lot of research and it's what I've found works for me.

I have found that if I wait too long to begin whirlpooling i.e after bulk cold break forms or try and do a second whirlpool for whatever reason then I find the cold break fluffs up and disperses throughout the wort again and just doesn't seem to settle and clear as easily as the initial cold break. This of course could be a result of poor water chemistry or other factors that I'm unaware of at this point in time.